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poprivit
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OK, which rifle for leopard?
      #184027 - 18/06/11 03:32 AM

I have a Namibian leopard hunt this year, and I'm kinda' wondering about which rifle to take.

1) Ruger .416 Mag Hawkeye w/mag-na-brake (still kicks like a rabid mule). Ammo: Hornady .416 - 400-gr. soft point
2) Weatherby .257 Mag. Ammo: Weatherby (Norma load) 100-gr. spire point (soft)

The 416 has a 1-4 Leupold while the Weatherby has a 3-9 Leupold. The lower power scope would be better for hunting from a blind, but the 3-9 would work well on plains game/bait.

This will be my 5th African safari, and I'm fairly good at placing a shot. The 257 is a very fast cartridge at 3000 fps and Roy Weatherby took a Cape Buffalo with it. The 416? Wellll, it SHOULD be enough for anything. It's just that the bloody thing is so damn unpleasant to shoot - even with the brake. It's too light for caliber, but that makes it easy to carry.

The 257 will do the job, and the rifle shoots 1/2 MOA. I'm kind of leaning to taking it, but what do you think.

257 or 416???

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hughman
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #184030 - 18/06/11 04:21 AM

When you find the 416 so unpleasant to shoot, you should not be using it against any animal, let alone something that might kill you. You will almost certainly screw up.

If the 257 is your only alternative, use it, but something in between the two calibers would be better.

Hugh

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: hughman]
      #184091 - 18/06/11 05:25 PM

I haven't hunted leopard, but if I was, I would choose something in between those extremes as well. One seems too small ideally anyway, and the other is a hard kicker, and perhaps something easier to shoot is better.

What are most guys using??

BTW is there a legal minimum for Namibia?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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DarylS
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: NitroX]
      #184119 - 19/06/11 02:21 AM

"This will be my 5th African safari, and I'm fairly good at placing a shot. The 257 is a very fast cartridge at 3000 fps and Roy Weatherby took a Cape Buffalo with it."

Poprivit, I'd be thinking in terms of something in the .30 through .338 line for leopard - preferrably .338 Winchester Mag - easy to shoot, and powerful. I've never been to Africa, probalby never be able to afford it, so that as an "unenlightened" suggestion. I'd not go after one with a .257 anything, although I have great faith in .257 AckImp, .25/06 and .257 WTBY with appropriate bullets on elk and moose. That cat's tenacios and mean if hurt. I've shot hundreds of feral house cats and I've seen how tough they can be. If Leopards tenacity is in ratio - use something with more thump than the .257. FPE is not a replacement for actual killing power.

Those who remember the Cape Buffalo Roy shot with this .257, re: the picture in that 1970's catolog like I do, will remember the the huge gash the .257's 100gr. Hornady SP made on the Buffalo's hip. That was the only .257 shot on the Buff., btw.

Roy claimed the high velocity round's hydrostatic shock killed the buff. They should have edited the picture a mite more closely, as plain as day, were the 2 .470 holes in the buff's shoulder, one slightly leaking (the lower, I think, but might have been the higher one), with the PH standing there with Roy. The Picture also contained the PH's .470 double rifle, leaning up agains the buff it killed.

Advertising, ain't it great! Today, we wonder, "whatever happened to the truth in advertizing" - was there any such thing - ever?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: DarylS]
      #184121 - 19/06/11 02:31 AM

That is a very famous occasion Daryl !! best, Mike

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JabaliHunter
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #184127 - 19/06/11 03:19 AM

Quote:

The 257 will do the job, and the rifle shoots 1/2 MOA. I'm kind of leaning to taking it, but what do you think.


Absolutely perfect!
Although strictly speaking, is a .257 legal in Namibia for Leopard? You don't need a hard bullet, but obviously don't want it to blow apart. The advice is that your favourite deer rifle is best for leopard...
If you go .416, you will want a very soft bullet if such a thing can be found...

Edited by JabaliHunter (19/06/11 03:20 AM)

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poprivit
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #184132 - 19/06/11 05:53 AM

hughman - I said it kicked, I didn't say I couldn't shoot it. Took a 40 inch Cape buffalo with it on my last safari. It's not pleasant, but it sure as hell works. I much prefer my Ruger #1 in 458 Lott. it's actually easier to shoot!

I shot a tsessebe and a lechwe with the 416. Boom ... thud! Unfortunately Hornady only has 2 loads, DGS and DGX. both 400-gr. If I could load a 300 SP, that would do the job. I'm going to check out bullets like A-Frame and Trophy Bonded for something to use as a leopard load.

BTW: my PH says a number of Namibian leopards have been taken with the 257 W. He said neck shots absolutely turn off the animal.

OK, guys and girls, any more comments? I appreciate all of them. I don't profess to be an expert. So fire away.

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93mouse
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #184135 - 19/06/11 07:09 AM

Poprivit min. caliber for Namibia hunting is 7mm aka .284:

http://www.natron.net/napha/english/huntinglaws.html

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Blank
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: 93mouse]
      #184158 - 19/06/11 12:37 PM

Poprivet:

Try the 350 TSX in your 416 Ruger. I have to agree - the 400 grain factory loads will knock the flour out of a bisquit, but you can shoot it well, with practice. My buff and ele didn't complain at all! As I loaded the TSX I found it a lot more pleasant to shoot, proved more accurate in mine, and will work for everything.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b365/blank142/DSC01644.jpg

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Rule303
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #184170 - 19/06/11 02:24 PM

From memory Barnes do a TSX in 300grn 416Cal.

I have never hunted in Africa let alone Lepoard but I would think you want a rifle that is quick handling and if in a blind or similar then something short that wont catch if you have to swing it. I would talk this over with your PH. Just my view.

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FATBOY404
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: Rule303]
      #184177 - 19/06/11 03:04 PM

No doubt both these will work but for me a 180-250 grain projctile at 2600-3000 fps would be top of the list.

I believe velocity is a good killer on Leopard though.
My mate shot his with a 180 grain Accubond in a 338.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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eagle27
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: FATBOY404]
      #184180 - 19/06/11 03:51 PM

We're talking about a thin skinned cat here, almost surely up a tree and shooting from a blind. Considering the cats weight I would have thought any accurate deer rifle that's legal calibre would easily do the trick. The 257 WM would be lethal. Of course a good result all comes down to placing the shot properly in the first place. Not having shot a leopold but having shot plenty of other animals including the big old tough red stags and heavily constructed tahr over long ranges I would be quite happy with my current 7mm-08, super accurate 140gr Sierras and plant the damn bullet through the shoulders, in the neck, or up in the brisket if frontal. None of this pissing around with fancy bullets and magic loads and then fluffing with a gut shot or one low in the chest or abdomen as seen in some postings on the forums. Although I would have my 404 in Africa I would not even consider using it when blind shooting.

Edited by eagle27 (19/06/11 06:37 PM)

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FATBOY404
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: eagle27]
      #184186 - 19/06/11 07:04 PM

Most hunters shoot some of their bait which is normally Zebra (a biggish animal) and also take other game on the same hunt so maybe something a little more versatile is in order.

Even from a blind you maybe required to shoot through some bush so a slightly heavier pill may be more reliable.

I'm only being the devil's advocate. ....I'm Sure theres been heaps shot with .243's,.270's and 6.5.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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DarylS
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: FATBOY404]
      #184201 - 20/06/11 01:35 AM

Al points taken, I think I'd prefer a lighter load in a larger bore, like a .338 - perhaps a 200gr. Speer would be tops on a cat, at about 3,000fps - or the new heavy jacket 225gr. in a .375 - same speed & easy to shoot accurately. Both guns usually print them within 2" of heavier bullets at 100,(friend's guns do) meters so possibly no re-sighting necessary. With .375's this is the norm.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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poprivit
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: DarylS]
      #184206 - 20/06/11 03:14 AM

Ok, here's another opinion. What say you?. BTW: I may just borrow my brother's Win. M 70 .300 Win Mag. I used to have one, and everything shot with it and a good 180-gr. bullet fell down, including a Tsessebe, Lechwe #3, Warthog and a Sititunga. "Course, if I could take a handgun ... S&W Performance Center 500 Mag with hardened lead 600-gr. bullets. Worked on a giraffe, should do for leopard. Probably pass right through and not stop until Angola. However, can't take it to Namibia.


"Even with good legs, you cannot outrun a leopard and as you have mentioned, shot placement is crucial for a clean kill. I have known a farmer in Namibia who sometimes shot gemsbok (oryx) successfully with a .22. A leopard is not a very large animal and it is also soft skinned. So a .257 WM will be effective on leopard. But in Namibia and Zimbabwe for example, the minimum legal caliber for plains game is 7mm (.284) and I think also for leopard. However in Namibia, a minimum of 1,991 ft-lb (2700 joules) is required for leopard which would make your rifle legal."

I hope this helps.

Werner Dörgeloh

Intu Safaris
Hunting far and wild

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Ripp
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #184207 - 20/06/11 03:35 AM

Agree with those who suggest .30 caliber or better..if you are hunting larger game and using a .375 H&H ..that would be fine as well..but, after having shot various cats in Africa, dont think you would need anything more that a 30-06 with a good quality bullet--say 180 A-Frame..your shots will not be that far.and it offers plenty of power for a leopard..any of the .300's would also work great as well..300 win or weatherby mag...

As earlier stated, shot placement is parmount, so if you feel the .416 is a mule,,,would NOT use that ..you need to be dead on for the shot..and if you are, the rest will sort itself out..

BTW--I have 2 custom rifles for the .257 weatherby--one of my favorite calibers for use here in Montana for deer and antelope..incredible round..but would still not be my choice for a leopard..


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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gryphon
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: Ripp]
      #184227 - 20/06/11 12:01 PM

I know a bloke that shot two in Africa using a 7mm mag,I dont know what pill etc This was told to me nearly 30 years ago.

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albertan
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: gryphon]
      #186154 - 20/07/11 03:41 PM

Cats have very active nervous systems. They are sensitive to bullet velocity. Anything that goes over 2500 fps and sheds energy quickly will work well. A good deer calibre with soft point, frangible bullets will work. I believe Harry Selby used a .243 on leopard with much success (over 100 happy and uninjured clients). A .308 with 150 grain Hornady round nose bullets would work wonders. It will be a short range shot. Use a bright, low powered scope.

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tophet1
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: albertan]
      #186156 - 20/07/11 05:04 PM

My last PH Chris Troskie is a bit of a Leopard man. Living in a warthog rich environent means leopard. We discussed leopard and my (then) building of a 7x57 which he thought would be perfect for the cats with a light, soft and fast projectile.

I agree with eagle27 and JabaliHunter. 257Weatherby all the way.

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DarylS
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: albertan]
      #186205 - 21/07/11 02:01 AM

Quote:

Cats have very active nervous systems. They are sensitive to bullet velocity. Anything that goes over 2500 fps and sheds energy quickly will work well. A good deer calibre with soft point, frangible bullets will work. I believe Harry Selby used a .243 on leopard with much success (over 100 happy and uninjured clients). A .308 with 150 grain Hornady round nose bullets would work wonders. It will be a short range shot. Use a bright, low powered scope.



Never shot one - but- in that line of thinking, a .308 or other non-betted .30 cal with a 150gr. FN .30/30 bullet. My cousin used to use them for deer in his match rifle - pow/whack - instant lights out- over 30 deer that way, some big, some small. Might work well on the smaller cats.

Cats, even house cat can be exceptionally tough - expeically with low velocity - Albertan, you might just have the reason. I've shot hundreds of wild and semi-wild house cats- they are tough. Hard to imagine just how tough an 80 to 150 pound cat would be - or 400pounds. I think the .375 and 225's or 200 SierraFN'd or 220 HornadyFN's sounds better for leopards all the time.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bonanza
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #186221 - 21/07/11 05:49 AM

Why don't you down load the .416?

Barnes makes a 300 grain TSX that probably can be loaded to around 2400 fps. That's like a .375 H&H.

--------------------


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"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

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poprivit
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: bonanza]
      #186226 - 21/07/11 08:16 AM

Nice thing about this forum - lots of interesting opinions. After all is said and done, I think I'll take the .416 Ruger. Nyati Inc. is reloading some lighter 300 gr. soft point loads for the .416. I've shot their load which is 300 gr. Barnes TSX HP @ 2,000 fps. Feels like shooting a .300 WM. Easy and shoots 1-1/2 inch @ 100 yards.

If you're interested, contact Ed Hammond at www.nyati.com to learn more about reduced loads. He just did some .577 Nitro Express @ 1000 fps. Should be interesting!

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9.3x57
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #186240 - 21/07/11 10:26 AM

pop;

Just bring the .416 but before you go, twist a wrench socket on the bullets of some loaded rounds of Horny softs to score a round line about 1/4 inch off the bullet tip, then grind to the scoring line on a wheel, load them single into the rifle and check zero.

There, solved.

Bring ten or so with you. When you are in your blind load one up the spot and keep the rest of the rounds in the mag as-normal.

You can test the efficacy of this modified bullet if you like, or rely on it w/o. It should be a real bomb on leopard.

One gun safari, all you need.

If I had a .416 I'd do it for nothing and make some comparisons. A Hornady so-modified should open fast.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bonanza
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: poprivit]
      #186256 - 21/07/11 09:05 PM

Tom,

As a avid handloader I have done quite a bit of research in reduced loads, primarily for plinking and hunting of deer. Back when I had my .375 H&H double rifle I was able to shoot a 1.5" group with a much reduced 270 grain bullet.

However, the most fun I have had is with the .458 WM and trail boss. Imagine a 9 pound rifle and a 460 grain LBT at 1100 fps.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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poprivit
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Re: OK, which rifle for leopard? [Re: bonanza]
      #186273 - 22/07/11 03:29 AM

bonanza, imagine a .577 Nitro Express with a 650 gr bullet at 1,000 fps. I've got five of them from Nyati. Now I'm looking for a .577 that I can photograph.

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