Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Husky 33 rolling block pressures

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Husky 33 rolling block pressures
      #183785 - 15/06/11 08:56 PM

Waiting for a model 33 to come in. Have a friend with a few, and it's a wonderful piece for conversion to a stalking rifle. My question is; what pressure range is it rated for?
I have read that it is in BP and Nitro depending on the age. If nitro, what is the pressure and if it is BP, is 40-65 too much?
I have heard of conversions to 45-70 but haven't seen it written anywhere online.

Thanks

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #183803 - 16/06/11 01:22 AM

Is this the 12.2X44R or similar - ie: Swedish version of a .50/70 Husky RB? Most were stamped around 1874 through 1884. I suspect the 8x57R or 8x56R, ro 8x58R, or whatever they were, are 1890's rifles and are nitro proofed but I suspect they'd be OK for up to maybe 35,000cup - just a guess, mind you. Most info is needed. The Swede's had a rimmed ctg. that was quite tapered, low capacity and low pressure in an 8 mm., seems to me - might have been the 8x58R. Memories on some things are a fleeting source of info. www.shop.tradeexcanada.com usually has them for sale as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9036
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: DarylS]
      #183813 - 16/06/11 03:19 AM

take a .589 barrel and chamber for a 50mm long 28 ga brass case loaded with blackpowder and bullet.
it was a original husqvarna cartridge in the M 17A combination gun but I have also seen pics of rolling block stalking rifles with full stock.
the 28ga Magtech brass is cheap and hold looooong with black powder. similar to the 577 snider that will kill anything in north america.








--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (20/06/11 09:14 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: lancaster]
      #183828 - 16/06/11 07:30 AM

The 33 was a small frame rolling block made for relatively small cartridges. Made for shooting Capercalle (sp?) out of trees around the turn of the century. Small rounded frame and not slab sided like the military models.
The 9.5x47r and similar rounds with a 28ga being the largest shotgun round that would fit that frame. I have also seen them in 24 and 410.
My guess is that I could easily build a 32-40 or 38-55 in the 6# range if I wanted to. I do know someone who had the original tapered octogon rebored to 40-65 but it always seemed to be a bit much as there wasn't too much metal left where the barrel was threaded into the reciever.

Did find this web site with pix and some info.

http://www.skydevaaben.com/husqvarna/model33/info.xml

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9036
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #183917 - 16/06/11 11:43 PM

looking into the link I would say best and classic option is a 360 NfB 2 1/4"


45/70 is boring, anyone build a rifle for this round

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: lancaster]
      #183927 - 17/06/11 12:55 AM

There is a fellow in Alberta who was buying the Swedish RB's and re-barreling, chambering them to .40/65 & re-stocking then selling them for around $650.00. I didn't see him at the gun show this Spring, but a couple years ago, one of our BP shooters bought one. It's a good shooting rifle & the ctg. seemed to do just fine.

I agree with lancaster - .45/70's ARE boring - everone (almost) has one.
the muzzles

inside check for sizes - .735" ball driven through for full size measurements & .684" ball slightly engraved, .684" ball as-cast.

refinished the wood


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (20/06/11 09:15 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: DarylS]
      #183975 - 17/06/11 10:49 AM

Got the rifle.

The bore is .363 and it appears that the case is slightly wider than a 30-30 base. Somewhat sorter than a 30-30 as well.

Any thoughts? I'm thinking that it is a 9.3r360 or something of that ilk.
Gun is teriffic. If I can get the brass and slugs I may just keep it as is.
So much for projects.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9036
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #183981 - 17/06/11 12:58 PM

sounds very much like a 9,3x57R 360

brass can be made from 9,3x72R S&B or RWS, original 360 2 1/4" brass is made from Betram and Horneber iirc. be shure about the chamber dimensions when order a die set. it can be that a case sized with a 360 BPE or NE die set will not fit the chamber.

the common .364 bullet for the 9,3x72R may work when the barrel is 363. for plinking you can use 9mm Makarov bullet.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184004 - 17/06/11 08:00 PM

Quote:

The 33 was a small frame rolling block made for relatively small cartridges. Made for shooting Capercalle (sp?) out of trees around the turn of the century. Small rounded frame and not slab sided like the military models.
The 9.5x47r and similar rounds with a 28ga being the largest shotgun round that would fit that frame. I have also seen them in 24 and 410.
My guess is that I could easily build a 32-40 or 38-55 in the 6# range if I wanted to. I do know someone who had the original tapered octogon rebored to 40-65 but it always seemed to be a bit much as there wasn't too much metal left where the barrel was threaded into the reciever.

Did find this web site with pix and some info.

http://www.skydevaaben.com/husqvarna/model33/info.xml



Tom,

I also think that you will have a 9.3x57R / 360.
The website you quoted above gives good information and loading data make sense.

I have an old rifle from Austria in that caliber and I have learnt how to load for it, see here:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=110287&an=0&page=0#Post110287

For me the cartridge is fine for hunting as it is. But getting the correct dies and forming cases may be a bit tricky, as well as bullet supply. I'll gladly send more info via PM or e-mail.

Regards,
fuhrmann

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #184019 - 17/06/11 11:42 PM

The 57mm case is 2.2" long. The .30/30 is 51mm or 2".

"Got the rifle.

The bore is .363 and it appears that the case is slightly wider than a 30-30 base. Somewhat shorter than a 30-30 as well.

Any thoughts? I'm thinking that it is a 9.3r360 or something of that ilk.
Gun is teriffic. If I can get the brass and slugs I may just keep it as is.
So much for projects.

Tom

Now, if the groove diameter is .363", it is a tight 9.3. If the bore diameter is .363", it is likely a 9.5mm X ?, as the groove diameter will be around .375". Just a guess from what Tom said above, re: "shorter than a .30/30 as well".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: DarylS]
      #184026 - 18/06/11 01:02 AM

Daryl,

you are right.

This might be a 9.5x47R.

from the http://www.skydevaaben.com/husqvarna/model33/info.xml site:
"The Model 33 is said to be manufactured between 1877 and 1912, and the slim octagonal barrel was chambered for quite a few calibres: 6x36R, 6,5x42R, 8x42R, 8x57R/360, 9x47R, 9,15x57R/360, , 9,5x47R, 10x47R, and 10,5x47R. .....
The rifle featured in this section is chambered for the 9,15x57R/360 cartridge. This cartridge is perhaps better known as 9,3x57R/360, or even .360 2 1/4'' Express. "

According to COTW:
9.3x72R (and 9.3x5R/360 and many others, similar but not quite identical to .30-30) has rim diameter of .482, base diameter of .430.
9.5x47R (and probably 10x47R)) has rim diameter of .583, base diameter of .513 (with recessed "Mauser-Boden", as in the .43 Mauser.

Fuhrmann

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #184041 - 18/06/11 07:41 AM

I should check my language (and measurements) before posting.


Gentlemen - thank you

It is most definately LONGER than the 30-30 class. Just around 2.25 from rough measurements. The GROOVE diameter (not the bore) is .365 with 6 lands. 27.75" long.

The base of the chamber mics .435, and the rim cut .511.

I had an 8.57r360 case and it fits nicely. Now to order the dies from CH4D.

The stock is walnut with some dents but looks thoroughly servicable. 2.75" of drop at the heel. With a pull of 13.5"

The hammer was broken sometime in the distant past, but someone took the effort to rebraise it and they did a credible job at that.

Overall the gun needs some work but it appears to be correct where it has to be.

My only concern is the bullet diameter and although the bore looks ok, I was surprised to see it closer to .366 than .363 like the 9.3x72r.

Hopefully by fall I may get the opportunity to take a whitetail with it.
Fuhrmann, have you taken that roe yet?

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9036
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184070 - 18/06/11 02:08 PM

be careful about order a die set of the stock. there is a british and a german case version in this caliber ( I suspect now its a 9,3x57R 360). its possible that a case sized with a 360 BPE 2 1/4 die set may not fit in your chamber. the diffference is allmost invicible but its there.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184093 - 18/06/11 05:55 PM

Quote:

I should check my language (and measurements) before posting.


Gentlemen - thank you

It is most definately LONGER than the 30-30 class. Just around 2.25 from rough measurements. The GROOVE diameter (not the bore) is .365 with 6 lands. 27.75" long.

The base of the chamber mics .435, and the rim cut .511.

I had an 8.57r360 case and it fits nicely. Now to order the dies from CH4D.

The stock is walnut with some dents but looks thoroughly servicable. 2.75" of drop at the heel. With a pull of 13.5"

The hammer was broken sometime in the distant past, but someone took the effort to rebraise it and they did a credible job at that.

Overall the gun needs some work but it appears to be correct where it has to be.

My only concern is the bullet diameter and although the bore looks ok, I was surprised to see it closer to .366 than .363 like the 9.3x72r.

Hopefully by fall I may get the opportunity to take a whitetail with it.
Fuhrmann, have you taken that roe yet?

Tom



Tom,

first, a .365 or .366 groove diameter is just fine. I have measured bullets for the 9.3x72R, and they have about 9.30 to 9.32 mm diameter diameter, which is .366.
These bullets are in no way "thinner" than the modern bullets intended for the 9.3x62 or 9.3x74R. The difference is they have thin soft jackets and a reduced bearing surface.

Question is what bullets you can get in the USA.

My problem was getting correct sizing dies and reforming 9.3x72R cases.
Lancaster already named the problem, different forms of case taper.
The British .360 2 1/4 Express is said to have a straight taper while the German form is not a straight taper but somewhat convex, with a little bit less waist in the middle.
In addition, in Germany and Austria the cartridge is really old and rare, and has never been "normalized", meaning standard measurements established. So each gun may have an individual chamber, with its own reloading problem. The .360 2 1/4 and then the 9.3x57R/360 were the first "smallbore cartridges". But by about 1900 the 9.3x72R had taken over, and I believe that many older guns have been rechambered to 9.3x72R. That's why I never found any useful data on chamber dimensions, loading data and on ballistics for the 9.3x57R/360.

My story is that I inherited the rifle from an old friend about 8 years ago, together with some fired original Berdan cases, a supply of Boxer-primed 9.3x72R cases, and a good box of the original 193 grain RWS jacketed bullets, great.
Plus a set of RCBS dies labelled 9.3x57 which was obviously out of place because it's for the rimless Mauser case.
RCBS or Huntingtons listed a special order die set for the 9.3x57R/360, part number is 55010.
I got that, shortened 9.3x72R cases, fully resized them but they did not chamber completely, a wee bit to fat around the waist.
The problem was finally solved by having dies made to order by the German company Triebel.

The message is that taper dimensions are tricky to measure, if wrong not easy to correct, and in a Martini or rolling block action the case must fit EXACTLY - you have no leverage to get the case in, and extraction of a wedged case is even worse.

Further problems I had was that the necks of the reformed 9.3x72R cases were much too thick, a lot of brass had to be turned off. Then I needed to learn how to set bullets into paper-thin case necks - you need an expander which is just a wee bit undersize than the bullet.

Lots of fun and learning in this project! And worth all the effort, because I finally got a roe buck this spring, see here:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=180464&an=0&page=0#Post180464

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #184116 - 19/06/11 02:08 AM

Probably using the 9.3x57 dies for neck sizing and seating duties only.

A query about peoples own data on the 9.3x57R/.360 might come from www.gunboards.com, in the Swedish Sporting Rifles forum. A number of those chaps who frequent there, have them, I think, judging from posts a while back.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: DarylS]
      #184122 - 19/06/11 02:37 AM

Thanks Furhmann.

Funny to hear that there is limited info regarding that cartridge in Europe.
It's almost non-existant over here. Some time ago I helped out a relative reload the 8x57r360 for a beautiful M71 hunting rifle. I found the information in an old issue of either "The Rifle", or "Handloader" magazine which sometimes have articles on European or rare cartridges.

Your experience is invaluable regarding a cartridge that could be a pain to reload. I decided to start by taking the simple approach before putting funds into a rifle that may not shoot. I am going to borrow the dies for the 8mm (which fits in the rifle), and run a 9.3 expander into the sized cases. The plan (if it works) is to turn the necks to a reasonably tight fit and finger seat the bullets. I do this with my 8.15x47r and it works very well. With low pressures I don't have to resize the cases and hopefully the action is tight enough so that flex doesn't create an issue.

If I can find someone who makes stop ring bullets it would be even beter.

By the way, very nice Roe. Is the pup in the picture a hunting partner or just waiting for a share in the take

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184151 - 19/06/11 10:07 AM

Progress.

I had some seconds of the 8x58r360 brass and they do in fact fit. I ran the case through the 35 whelen die to open it up and I used a 9.3x72r expander. Surprisingly it worked out.

The case fit in the chamber with a .366 speer, the outside of the neck measuring .392. Just to see how much room there was around the neck, I added one thickness of celophane tape to the outside of it (.396). There was no way that it was going to close with even that amount so I think that I am in good shape.

Now to find some lead...

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by Tom_H (19/06/11 12:15 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
FrankS
.300 member


Reged: 06/10/08
Posts: 114
Loc: New Iberia Louisiana
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184172 - 19/06/11 02:29 PM

If I remember correctly the pressures for the danish rolling block chambered in the 8x58r danish cartridge 28,000 maximum. I do know that the danish rolling block is larger than the #33 so perhaps a lower pressured cartridge would be in order. 38-55 anyone. Frank

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184236 - 20/06/11 02:30 PM

Tom,

I'm glad to hear that cases are no problem for you.
For bullets my choice would be Sellier & Bellot 12,5 gram / 193 grain flat points, no. 2951. But I don't know if you will find them in your country.

The young dog is my brother's Deutscher Wachtelhund, about 1 and 1/2 years old. He did the 70 m tracking of the blood trail, welcome exercise for the young guy. And you see in his face, it's now his buck.

Regards,
fuhrmann

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #184273 - 21/06/11 06:57 AM

Still looking for a source of bullets. Seller and Bellot is high priced with the dollar where it is. The 9.3x72r that I have seen has been around $60 per box. Unfortunately they don't sell components for it or I am sure that shooters would take advantage of those 193gr slugs with the stop ring design.

I have dealt with Bob Hayley in Texas in the past but I believe that he only has the heavier varieties of cast .366 bullets. Nice fellow to deal with and makes some great slugs though.

Found another 4 cases to work with. Almost time to go to the range.

Thank you all for the help, links and advice.

Cheers

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184283 - 21/06/11 12:40 PM

.366" cast bullets, probably .367" would give the best accuracy.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: DarylS]
      #184288 - 21/06/11 04:52 PM

Bullets should weigh around 200 grains, I believe.
How about paper-patching .358 bullets??

Fuhrmann

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #184326 - 22/06/11 09:26 AM

Fuhrmann, obviously you are also a mind reader; or more likely you have been through this already and you thought it out.

Currently looking for some 20# cotton bond and asking if any of my shooting buddies have any 200gr 35 cal cast bullets around. Went on Youtube for "how to" articles as well.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: Tom_H]
      #184356 - 22/06/11 04:26 PM

Tom,

I have tried it, and a .357 bullet patched with airmail paper (from the bygone days when we still sent letters overseas) will be just right. Weight of this paper is given as 2.8 grams per 1 A4 sheet. Here I found a good "how-to" description:
http://www.rbsiii.com/PaperPatchedBullets

Now have fun "rolling your own".

Fuhrmann

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Husky 33 rolling block pressures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #184392 - 23/06/11 12:41 AM

20# might be a bit thick. 2 wraps is proper and 2 1/2 thou is usually a good thickness for an 8 to .010" increase.

We've shot paper patched bullets for years in our Sharps and Rolling Blocks. I'll take a picture of the paper patching 'board' if you'd like. Makes it easy to roll the paper onto the bullet.

The Remington Scalloped Jacket RN might be a bullet that could be relyed upon to expand well at lower speeds.

Lightly rolling the jacketed bullet with a sharp-toothed rasp to raise little sharp pics (roughness), can help also, with very smooth, hard bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 112 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Huvius 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 19977

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved