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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Got the 416 Ruger sorted.
      #183553 - 13/06/11 06:01 PM

As some of you are aware, I have a 416 Ruger built on a P14 action with a really tight bored TSE barrel.
I have been having trouble with it not getting the speed I thought I would get from a 400 grain bullet.
After some discussion with Daryl here, I had the throat lengthened out to 0.375", from about 0.185".
My next job was to give it a fire-lap, as the barrel is full of tool marks and fouled really badly.
Last weekend I put 20 rounds of fire-lapping through it, two different grades of paste, cleaning between each ten rounds. A borescope inspection before and after revealed a real change in the amount of tool marks present.
Today I shot some 400 grain Taipans with AR 2208 (Varget), long story short, I got up to 70 grains of it and had the 400 grainers travelling at a touch over 2200 fps. 70 grains was the highest load I had today, as I wasn't sure where to stop. In any case 70 grains showed a nicely rounded primer still, so I'll try a bit more in coming weeks, although I'm not sure I need anymore than 2200 fps anyway?
Two lessons learned for me today, fire-lapping works, the barrel fouled noticebly less, requiring a quick clean-up instead of days like before. I fire-lapped using Trailboss and cast lead projectiles BTW. The other thing I learned is that the longer throat absolutely let me get some more speed from the Ruger without undue pressures, and actually improved the accuracy as well.
I'm now back on the "Happy Track" with the 416 Ruger.

Here is a photo of a local vistor we had on the range today, they don't seem at all worried about being on the business end of a rifle range, we closed the range while he and his mate wandered all over the range and eventually left.
To be politically incorrect, I did really wonder what a 400 Grain Taipan would have done, not that I would have.



Edited by CptCurl (03/07/11 11:30 PM)

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #183555 - 13/06/11 06:17 PM

I'm a little disapointed Dave and you know why !!!.

Roy knew what he was doing hey.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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Cinghiale
.333 member


Reged: 15/04/08
Posts: 406
Loc: Northern Territory
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #183556 - 13/06/11 06:17 PM

Glad to hear that it is finally getting towards where you want it to be good stuff!

Regards,

MOG

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Ben
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: Cinghiale]
      #183561 - 13/06/11 06:37 PM

Great photo!

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Rule303
.450 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5055
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #183564 - 13/06/11 07:19 PM

What a combination a good old classic action teamed with a new upstart of a round:-) Should now work well, although a bit dissapointing in the TSE barrel with all the tool marks.

Looks like the range officer was giving your targets a good once over

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: Rule303]
      #183568 - 13/06/11 07:41 PM

Neale,
It'll be good, plenty more M17's / P14's around yet.

The closest target, the 25m one, was the one my son was shooting at for a while, which is why it looks more like a shotgun pattern, he must have fired a fair few at it I think.

DC

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #183571 - 13/06/11 07:58 PM

Tell your YB "Its still a dead pig @ 25" and 50.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26975
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: FATBOY404]
      #183598 - 14/06/11 01:37 AM

Glad it's coming together, David.

Using TB for firelapping, good stroke of thinking, that. No possibility of getting a stuck round, and the necessary low velocity for 'best' lapping.

A mistake many make is using too fine a compound, too quickly, thereby not getting the bore as good as it can be.

The scope will certanly show you the progress. Really happy it's 'happening'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: DarylS]
      #183600 - 14/06/11 02:29 AM

Darryl
Could you give us uneducated a brief rundown on fire-lapping, I've been lapping an 1886 in 45-90 trying to get her to come around. Fire added to the equation sounds a whole lot funner than beating a brass rod and cerrasafe back and forth.

--------------------
Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26975
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: Smoke73]
      #183604 - 14/06/11 03:15 AM

new thread - smoke73

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: DarylS]
      #183623 - 14/06/11 09:06 AM

Nice shot. BTW dinawan are good tucker, esp in an earth oven.

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bigjedd
.224 member


Reged: 23/02/10
Posts: 37
Loc: Gippsland,Victoria,Australia
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: kamilaroi]
      #184622 - 26/06/11 09:52 AM

450 ackley, Just thought you might be interested in what I found while reloading the 416 Ruger,
I was using 2208 with 400 gr frontier bullets in my 416R Alaskan but found the load was compressed too much to get any more powder and velocity. Also I was not able to seat the bullet to the cannelure groove for a crimp. I switched to 2206H powder and now I am getting 2320fps from the 20" Ruger barrel with a slight crimp and less compression on the load.

I find the concept of free boring the 416Ruger interesting, dont know If there is enough space in the ruger magazine to allow for seating the bullets further out but would certainly help with pressures having a longer jump in the throat.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26975
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Got the 416 Ruger sorted. [Re: bigjedd]
      #184667 - 27/06/11 02:44 AM

Any time you reduce pressure, you reduce velocity as well. It then takes more powder to get it back to the same speed and pressure as before. It is a VERY fine juggling act that bounces back and forth depending on length of freebore(leade), "size" of freebore(leade), angle of throat and seating depth and so it goes.

Even in my little 9.3x57, which has a VERY long leade or freebore, seating the bullet .1" more deeply in the case, increased velocity over 100fps, and was equivalent to 2gr. of powder.(the longer seating needed 2gr. more to match the speed of the shorter length) Even with it's horifficly long leade (cannot be touched and still keep a 286gr. bullet in the case), this rifle shoots inch or better yet was made back in 1929. It does not care where the bullet is seated, accuracy wise, but velocity wise, it is touchy as noted.

Lee "Factory Crimp Dies" do not need a cannelure to crimp a bullet securely in a case as they are collet dies. Normal seating/crimping dies such as RCBS require a cannelure as the case is pushed into a constriction, and will buckle if no groove. With a collet, the case neck is constricted, being pressed in from the sides, not downward from the top.

In the .416, if powder capacity suffers with a certain powder, that powder is too slow burning and a different powder needs be chosen for testing.

Most modern rifles have magazine capacities shorter than the actual throat in the rifle will allow. In other words, the chamber's throat will normall allow longer seating than-will the magazine. I'd check that first, before altering the chamber.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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