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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39901
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa
#183399 - 11/06/11 01:48 AM

Has anyone heard of these new minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa?

http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=146677

CHAPTER2
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR HUNTING METHODS
Minimum bullet weights for rifle hunting

4. (1) The minimum bullet weights for rifie hunting for the respective categories of wild and alien
animals are the following-

( a) 2.3 g. (35 gr.) bullet for hunting
(i) furred game up to and including the size of a rock hyrax and all rodents; and
(ii) feathered game;

3.3 g. (50gr.) bullet for hunting-
(i) furred game larger than the species contemplated in sub-paragraph (1)(a)(i), up to and
including the size of springbok; and
(ii) mountain reedbuck;

(c) 6.6 g. (100gr.) bullet for hunting furred game larger than the species contemplated in subparagraphs
(1)(b}(i) and (1)(b)(ii), up to and Including the size of impala, warthog, blesbuck,
common reedbuck and nyala ewes;

(d) 8.4 g. (130gr.) buUet for hunUng furred game larger than the species contemplated in subparagraph
(1)(c), up to and including the size of black wildebeest. tsessebe, nyala bulls and
hartebeest;

(e) 9.9 g. (150gr.) bullet for hunting furred game larger_ than the species contemplated in subparagraph
(1 )(d), up to and including the size of blue wildebeest, kudu, gemsbuck, sable, roan and
leopard;

{D 11 g. (175gr.) bullet for hunting furred game larger than the species contemplated in sub-paragraph
(1)(e), up to and Including eland, but excluding lion and buffalo;

(g) 16.2 g. (250gr.) bullet for hunting furred game larger than the species contemplated in subparagraph
(1)(n. up to and including lion, buffalo and giraffe; and

(h) 19.5 g. (300gr.) bullet for hunting furred game larger than the species contemplated in subparagraph
{1)(g), including thick-skinned animals, but excluding buffalo.

(2) When hunting thick-skinned animals the bullet must be of full metal jacket or monolithic
solid construction.

Note the requirement of only using FMJs or Monolithic solids for buffalo and larger, 250 gr or 300 gr and heavier.

And also the bureaucracy and the number of "levels" of minimum bullet weights required.

All seems to be a bit ridiculous to me?

What do you think?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: NitroX]
#183404 - 11/06/11 03:55 AM

John, I seriously doubt there is a single person working in JoBurg airport who could tell you what a bullet weight is, they don´t check the ammo, quantity or calibre so checking bullet weights !!! When I arrived at Mopoto last year and opened the gun case on the holland the guy picked up the stock and action then the barrels and told me I only had a permit for one rifle, not two !!! and he wasn´t kidding, we had to explain they fitted together (the outfitter had also got the last number of the serial number wrong so you can imagine the next two hours

but that is a story for when I meet you) best, Mike

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
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Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#183406 - 11/06/11 05:14 AM

Mike, your experience at the airport sounds like it has the basis of a great Three Stooges movie.

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PHMadness
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Reged: 26/05/11
Posts: 65
Loc: Seattle, WA

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#183407 - 11/06/11 05:36 AM

Quote:

When I arrived at Mopoto last year and opened the gun case on the holland the guy picked up the stock and action then the barrels and told me I only had a permit for one rifle, not two !!! and he wasn´t kidding, we had to explain they fitted together (the outfitter had also got the last number of the serial number wrong so you can imagine the next two hours

Musta been trained by TSA here in the states.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: PHMadness]
#183412 - 11/06/11 07:45 AM

I saw this over on AR but I'm not sure it has been Gazetted yet as a regulation. We need some input from our Southern African members.

It certainly seems very 'conventional' with no allowance for modern (expanding mono-metal) projectile designs that rely on velocity with lighter weight which aren't my cup of tea anyway

Apart from solids for Buff it seems rather sensible but eliminates choice if followed exactly. If implemented I guess it opens a legal pandoras box if things go sideways and the wrong weight is being used.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: tophet1]
#183413 - 11/06/11 08:34 AM

Tophet1.
I think you nailed it mate.
If using conventional bullets,I agree totally with the minimum bullet weights but cant see why you cant use a 130 grain Barnes TSX in a 270 for Wildebeest.(only an example not my choice).

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: FATBOY404]
#183427 - 11/06/11 10:58 AM

Well, cracky - guess I'll not make the trip afterall. I ws hoping for a lion or leapoard with my .17AH - the heaviest it will shoot is 30gr., but I prefer the 25gr. Vmax. and neither is heavy enough legally, even for Africa's rodents.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: DarylS]
#183432 - 11/06/11 01:14 PM

Based on my experience with gubmnt regulations here I submit the whole thing has nothing to do with killing power and will merely be enforced for the purpose of collecting fine money to fund the game department and also to provide an insurance escape for guides/professionals.

Here's how it works;

Daryl gets snagged packin a .17 on a leopard hunt. He gets fined R1000 and must sign a waiver that if the leopard makes kabobs out of his forearm his Pro is not subject to suit or game infraction.

Just my twee Rand!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Powdersmoke
.224 member

Reged: 08/02/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Pine Town Natal South Africa

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: 9.3x57]
#183451 - 11/06/11 06:41 PM

It has been implemented by our glorious rocket scientists here........ yay......... I do not however think that it will influence any of you fine gentlemen that travel here to hunt, unless you plan on hunting sabre toothed spring hares or any of our more dangerous rodent species! This is a simple ploy to make more of us legal gun owners give up our firearms, and make it more difficult to buy more (as if it wasn't difficult already) as an aside, Daryl, that .17hmr is a bit heavy for leopard bud, rather save the ammo for when you come to take your ele, or buff!

Have a great weekend gents.

Regards.

Powdersmoke.

--------------------
There can never be too much gun........

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39901
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: Powdersmoke]
#183453 - 11/06/11 08:08 PM

Quote:

Has anyone heard of these new minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa?

http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=146677

CHAPTER2
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR HUNTING METHODS
Minimum bullet weights for rifle hunting

4. (1) The minimum bullet weights for rifie hunting for the respective categories of wild and alien
animals are the following-

(c) 6.6 g. (100gr.) bullet for hunting furred game larger than the species contemplated in subparagraphs
(1)(b}(i) and (1)(b)(ii), up to and Including the size of impala, warthog, blesbuck,
common reedbuck and nyala ewes;

(d) 8.4 g. (130gr.) buUet for hunUng furred game larger than the species contemplated in subparagraph
(1)(c), up to and including the size of black wildebeest. tsessebe, nyala bulls and
hartebeest;

(e) 9.9 g. (150gr.) bullet for hunting furred game larger_ than the species contemplated in subparagraph
(1 )(d), up to and including the size of blue wildebeest, kudu, gemsbuck, sable, roan and
leopard;

How bureaucratic to have EIGHT different categories!

Note also to hunt nyala, a 100 gr bullet is OK for a ewe but if you want to hunt a bull, a 130 gr bullet is needed.

Also the fine .270 with a 130gr or a 7x57 with a 140 gr is no longer capable of taking a kudu or gemsbok ....

Snoobabery at its best. Did the hunting associations play any part in these lists?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9058
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: NitroX]
#183454 - 11/06/11 09:18 PM

quite simple, a double rifle with 500 grain bullets will work for all

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: lancaster]
#183455 - 11/06/11 09:19 PM

What happens if you pitch up with a Paradox ?????? best, Mike

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DarylS
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Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#183477 - 12/06/11 01:10 AM

Sheer weight alone wins the argument for now, Mike, for the time being, that is. Next time, they'll add some more categories and joules or fpe to the lists - joules would be best - hardly anyone around here knows the conversion joule. If I ever did, I forgot it.

The list appears to have been designed by government lackies.

Powdersmoke - I'd never consider the big cats with my little rimfire HMR. Those would be game for my .17Ackley Hornet. Elephant and Cape Buffalo would require at least a .20Ackley Hornet - heavier bullets, you see - up to 40gr. even. Deeper penetration from the heavies, I understand WOT?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Powdersmoke
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Reged: 08/02/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Pine Town Natal South Africa

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: DarylS]
#183565 - 13/06/11 07:19 PM

John, you nailed it....... Snoobabery par excellence, and no, the gun owners/ hunting organisations etc etc ad infinitum had very little (read this as sweet FA) to do with it! @ Daryl. I personally think that is too much gun for dangerous game, but that is just my opinion, .22lr with a 35gr is about as big as I go on buff ....... I like the challenge, and then like to finish it off with my (insert your favorite brand) knife! (apologies to Braveheart safaris, I couldn't help myself)

If you don't understand this google the buffalo story on braveheart safaris........WTF?

Powdersmoke.

--------------------
There can never be too much gun........

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39901
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: Powdersmoke]
#183567 - 13/06/11 07:40 PM

Quote:

@ Daryl. I personally think that is too much gun for dangerous game, but that is just my opinion, .22lr with a 35gr is about as big as I go on buff ....... I like the challenge, and then like to finish it off with my (insert your favorite brand) knife! (apologies to Braveheart safaris, I couldn't help myself) If you don't understand this google the buffalo story on braveheart safaris........WTF?

Powdersmoke.

I think the Chief Snoobabs need to work out a list of minumum acceptable knives to stab game animals with too.

Letter opener for little lizards
Swiss Army knife for dassies
Steak knife for duiker

...

9 inch bowie for buffalo &
Great big bloody broadsword for elephant!

While rifles need only eight categories, knives need at least twelve!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Powdersmoke
.224 member

Reged: 08/02/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Pine Town Natal South Africa

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: NitroX]
#183584 - 13/06/11 10:58 PM

I completely agree John! Especially your lizard "caliber", they can be dangerous little b@stards at times! Please note that I have not even touched on the bird category, I think that the minimum recommended caliber for ostrich was a twin twenty mil oerlikon, regardless of the fact that they are flightless, and that is an anti aircraft caliber here........ in all seriousness, we are all so tired of all the pathetic little games here, that is why I gave up (albeit temporarily) on my quest for a double, this is an excerpt from my motivation letter as to why I needed a double rifle, and the response.........

"I wish to purchase a double rifle,(470NE) as I am a PH in sub Saharan Africa, and would use it as a back up firearm to protect my clients, and to dispatch any animal that I deemed to be suffering unnecessarily, I would like to have the rifle with me whilst I am at home in South Africa, as I have nowhere safe to leave it when I come home" and the response........

"Mr X, it has been made clear to you that you already have 30 06 on your license (my .458 is a company weapon, and not mine), why is it that you need a caliber heavier than this to back up your clients?" I think it was the sub Saharan Africa thing that threw them, here is my short but meaningful response to the individual involved.......

"Dear Mr X, I certainly hope that I have the pleasure of your company on a hunt, one day sooner rather than later, and that you @#ck up a shot on an angry buffalo, and that it charges you whilst I am standing BEHIND you with your large caliber rifle, and that you run out of bullets, whilst I bounce 168gr bullets of it's soft teddy bear like hide, and if by some miracle the buffalo does not gore you to death, I will be happy to put you out of your misery with my 30 06"

So far I have not had a response, do you think that I may have come over as sarcastic at all?

Regards.

Powdersmoke.

--------------------
There can never be too much gun........

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Powdersmoke
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Reged: 08/02/11
Posts: 44
Loc: Pine Town Natal South Africa

Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: Powdersmoke]
#183586 - 13/06/11 11:06 PM

Sorry, to those wondering what the hell I was talking about with the knife incident, and you want to shake your head vigorously from side to side at peoples stupidity, AND then advertising it to the world, please watch this........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQnZyeukczI

Unbelievable, it makes me cringe every time I watch it. See if you can pick out the fundamental mistakes from the beginning of the video, as non Pro hunters......
(apologies if somebody else has posted this)

Regards.

Powdersmoke.

--------------------
There can never be too much gun........

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: New minimum bullet weights for hunting in South Africa [Re: Powdersmoke]
#183591 - 14/06/11 01:05 AM

Powdersmoke, have you heard the story about the frozen Leopard ? PM me if so, best, Mike

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