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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Cast Bullets
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Perry
.275 member


Reged: 09/11/10
Posts: 73
Loc: Qld Australia
More 35.303 load development - DOOH
      #183367 - 10/06/11 01:57 PM

Afternoon fella's

Ever reminded yourself about something you already should know after the event !!

450 Ackley was king enough to send me some CBE 358250 projectiles for me to try as I had been considering purchasing this Mould. In my haste to shoot them and see how they would go I loaded a few batches stepping up in 1 grain increments from 38 gr AR2208 up to 41 gr of AR2208, about 4 grains under load data max

The once fired 35.303 cases neck sized , trimmed and cleaned, primers seated just right and exact charges weighed and loaded. The projectiles where sized and pan lubed, seated to the crimping groove approx one calibre deep. There was a magic load ready to jump out at me

I dropped a cartridge into the chamber with a satisfying thunck - closed the Silky smooth SMLE bolt SHIT - YOU BLOODY DILL - I had neglected to make a dummy round to check if these CBE 358250 projectiles would chamber

The projectile was making way too firm contact with the Lands, about a 1/4" from the metplat just below the round nose. The Rifles throat is too short, set up for the Jacketed projectiles I'd originally planned to shoot from the Rifle - I knew that !!!!!! just got carried away.

No harm done, had a few loads for testing in my Rossi 357 Lever so it was not a wasted trip. After some consideration of what I the intended use / want from the Rifle and since the realisation that $1 each is too much for a Jacketed projectile hence my determination to shoot Cast exclusively from it this morning I had a discussion with the Gunsmith who put this Rifle together for me and have left it with him and some sample rounds to have the throat lengthened.

Now I gotta wait a couple more weeks and start again. I also have a heap of Lyman 358315 208 gr proj cast up that I'm curious to see how they will shoot with the longer throat as they showed good potential with the short throat.

regards Jacko

--------------------
"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: More 35.303 load development - DOOH [Re: Perry]
      #183374 - 10/06/11 05:50 PM

Perry,
Glad to see you've sort of put them to good use already.
I've just had the throat on my 416 Ruger lengthened out to 0.375" long, about 0.190" longer than it was.
Using my same cast bullet load, it actually shot a lot better than it did before, seemed to be more consistently grouping them together.
Might get to the range this weekend to try some more.
So the extra jump didn't hurt my 416, but as we all know, every rifle is an individual.
I'd like to think it shouldn't worry it too much at all.

Keep us posted after Allan throats it out a bit more.

Regards,
David.

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: More 35.303 load development - DOOH [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #183397 - 11/06/11 12:45 AM

Perry- it is always suggested to not have the gas check below the case shoulder. This is a suggestion only, not a hard and fast rule. Some rifles shoot just fine, with the gas check beneath the shoulder.

Merely seat the bullets more deeply where-ever they have to be to chamber, and try them out. There is no reason you cannot at least try them in your rifle, unless they are TOO large in diameter to allow the neck of the case to enter the chamber.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: More 35.303 load development - DOOH [Re: DarylS]
      #183401 - 11/06/11 02:00 AM

At least a bit of the gas check should remain in the neck of the loaded cartridge to be certain that the gas check does not fall off. In the alternative, if the charge is even slightly compressed, that will accomplish the same goal. If the gas check should fall off, it probably will not harm the rifle, but who knows where the shot will go? If your gas checks are firmly crimped in place this will not be a concern, but less than perfect bullets will often have rounded edges on the heels, and the checks will come off easily. Bullets from some moulds will always have heels that are a slip fit, so the best solution is to keep the gas check in the case neck.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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Perry
.275 member


Reged: 09/11/10
Posts: 73
Loc: Qld Australia
Re: More 35.303 load development - DOOH [Re: Tatume]
      #183415 - 11/06/11 09:15 AM

Morning Fella's

There is no problem with seating the CBE 358250 deeper in the case in regards to allowing the case to chamber other than the gas check being below the case neck. I was concerned with the potential for gas cutting. I have no experiience with this but from what I've been told and read I thought it likely.

I had been thinking about the merits of leaving the throat of my chamber as is and simply using the 208 gr proj but I am a proponent of heavy for calibre projectiles. From my limited knowledge of ballistics I thought a longer heavier Cast bullet would be advantagous despite generally being less ballistically efficient compared to a Jacketed projectile of the same mass.

I have little knowledge of longer throats on Rifles and have been told opposite sides of the argument many times - always in the negative by folks who shoot Jacketed projectiles. I decided to get my Rifles throat lengthened based on what I'd researched, positive comment and experience from a mate with decades of experience and yesterdays discussion with Les and Allan at Pine Rivers Gunshop

The CBE 358250 projectiles are 1.031" with gas check and if seated below the crimp groove and front band would be the same overall length as a cartridge loaded with the 358315 proj seated to the crimping groove. They are .931 long with gas check. I also wonder about a shorter overall cartridge length than this not feeding through my magazine

On the subject of Gas checks, I am using Hornady's. Dear as poison too buy in Australia, 1/2 the price to buy OS. Does anyone here have any experience with the various Aftermarket Gas check making dies.

regards Jacko

--------------------
"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: More 35.303 load development - DOOH [Re: Perry]
      #183425 - 11/06/11 10:55 AM

Jacko - book I have on wildcats shows a fellow with a .348 Ackley Improved Winchester Model 71. In this rifle, he was shooting 300gr. gas-check bullets that had to be seated well below the case neck, which is relatively short in that chambering.

His lever actioned rifle printed group after group of around an inch and a bit better than inch at 100 yards off bags. He used crimp-on gas checks - seating below the case neck does not bother me any more.

If using very fast powders like Red dot or other shogun powder, there may be an opportunity to gas cut. With rifle powders, which you are using, the bullet will be well into the throat before any powder gasses get at it's base.

With rifle powders, if there is gas cutting of the bullet and it's base, it is due to a too-small bullet for the groove diameter or too low pressure for the alloy to obturate to seal the throat, not because the bullet was seated below the neck/shoulder junction.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Perry
.275 member


Reged: 09/11/10
Posts: 73
Loc: Qld Australia
Re: More 35.303 load development - DOOH [Re: DarylS]
      #183434 - 11/06/11 01:31 PM

As always Daryl, a wealth of information for me to think over. I appreciate your advise

regards Jacko

--------------------
"To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin

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