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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Mike_Johnson
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Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is
      #181951 - 19/05/11 07:15 AM

Merkel, Kriegoff, Blazer, chapious, heym - Which one to buy and why? Does any one design hold up any better than others? read the double rifle book but didn't get much info to this answer. thanks

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500Nitro
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #181952 - 19/05/11 07:20 AM


Mike

They are all different, all have different features that some like, some don't.


Markel - traditional, solid, well built. I have 2, nothing wrong with them, a bit barrel heavy in the 470.


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470evans
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #181956 - 19/05/11 08:20 AM

In my opinion, the Heym is the nicest of the ones you mentioned. It costs a bit more but is worth it.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: 470evans]
      #181960 - 19/05/11 09:58 AM

I have a Merkel in .500NE and like it a lot. I have shot hundreds of rounds through it.

I've not tried a Heym, but they certainly are well spoken of. I am not attracted to Kreighoff and Blaser. Some are.

The Verney-Carron is getting some exposure in the U.S. now. You might consider it.

It's truly amazing what choices of double rifles are now available at every level of interest. Wasn't that way 25 years ago.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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ozhunter
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: CptCurl]
      #181973 - 19/05/11 05:15 PM

I recently had to decide between Merkel, Heym and Verney-Carron in 470.
The V-C won in the end.


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kamilaroi
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: ozhunter]
      #181975 - 19/05/11 05:31 PM

VC all the way.

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Mike_Johnson
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: kamilaroi]
      #182004 - 20/05/11 01:43 AM

Thanks gentleman. If I go VC it will have to be in the used market. They seem a bit steep for this missionaries budget.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #182008 - 20/05/11 02:52 AM

Mike,

If you get altitude sickness looking at a V-C, then your question is answered. Get a good condition Merkel on the used market. I prefer the .500NE but the .470NE is more commonly found. You can buy these rifles on the used market for bargain prices. They are truly good rifles. The represent the best buy monetarily, and you aren't compromising function.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Kebco
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #182088 - 21/05/11 07:30 AM

Quote:

Thanks gentleman. If I go VC it will have to be in the used market. They seem a bit steep for this missionaries budget.




Does it have to be a 470? I have a used 450-400 and a couple of demo guns (but it do not think any are 470. Give me a call, only 15 miles from York PA


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Mike_Johnson
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Kebco]
      #182090 - 21/05/11 08:02 AM

Kebco, I kinda have my heart set on a 470 now. I bought a Chapuis in 9.3x74R from you a couple of years back from you. (came to your house to look over those available) If you get word of a 470 used available, let me know. Mike

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bwanabobftw
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #182125 - 22/05/11 05:33 AM

Mike,
You might look on Champlinarms.com web sight they have a used Chapuis in .470 ($9950).
Cheers,
Robert


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500grains
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #182152 - 22/05/11 12:56 PM

Heym. Very slim and light and swings easily.

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Yochanan
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: 500grains]
      #182478 - 25/05/11 06:11 PM

If money is no object a Max Ern rising bite double, preferably in 450 3-1/4 NE. I would go for either Chapius Azur or Heym.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Ripp
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: 500grains]
      #182488 - 26/05/11 12:19 AM

Quote:

Heym. Very slim and light and swings easily.




Agree think the Heyms are awesome for the price...if I was too buy new, Heym is the one I would probably get..

Had merkel..not impressed...

or if you buy used..try to get a used Westley Richards...certain to hold their value if you buy right and get your money back if you decide to sell..IMHO, more of an investment..

Good Luck..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DUGABOY1
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #185301 - 06/07/11 05:21 AM

Quote:

Merkel, Kriegoff, Blazer, chapious, heym - Which one to buy and why? Does any one design hold up any better than others? read the double rifle book but didn't get much info to this answer. thanks




Of the ones you mention and if all were the same price my pick would be the Heym! However they are not all the same price and because of that fact my #1 pick would be the Merkel, #2 Krieghoff, and #3 would be the Chapuis! I now own two Merkel double rifles, one a 140-2 Safari 470NE, and a 140E-1, 9.3X74R Both are around ten years old, and have been shot quite a lot and both are as new! The 9.3X74R has taken most of the north American game short of the large brown bear and mountain sheep. The 470NE has taken two bull Elephant, and three cape Buffalo bulls, not by me but the previous owner, With me it has only take several large Russian boar! So since these two double rifles are the only Merkel double rifles I've owned, I have owed several Merkel shotguns, and combination guns over the years and have never had a major problem with any of them.

I have also owned one Heym double rifle chambered for 450NE 3 1/4 in and it took three buffalo and a lot of North American and African plains game. That rifle was an old mod 88 with selective ejector/extractor switch, a feature I really liked!

I have not owned a Chapuis double rifle but have several friends who own and shoot Chapuis doubles and I have never seen one that was not accurate. Some things about the Chapuis I do not like, things like the beavertail fore stock, and they tend to be too light for chambering IMO.

The Krieghoff doubles do not fit me well and that is the only reason I do not own one. I have zero issue with the K-gun's de-cocking system. With this rifle loaded, and de-cocked it is the safest double rifle on the market today to avoid an accidental discharge. The rifle once cocked, fired, and broken open for a re-loading of one or both chambers the rifle has re-cocked it's self and can be fired the instant it is closed. If the rifle is not fired again after the reload, all that is needed to make it safe is to push the de-cocking liver (so-called safety) forward slightly and released, the rifle is then un-cocked and safe to carry loaded.

NOW we come to the Blaser S2 double rifle that everyone thinks the de-cocking system is the same as the Krieghoff, but there is one seriously negative feature in the S2 that , IMO, makes it not the best choice for use as a dangerous game rifle.

This rifle automatically DE-COCKS it's self, if opened for ANY REASON! With two shots in a Buffalo that is still on his feet and coming fast this rifle must be RE-COCKED before it can be fired! IMO, that is not a feature I want on a double rifle I'm facing a mauling with. When every maker of hammerless dangerous game double rifles in the world frowns on a simple auto safety on their rifles used for dangerous game, not one of them would even consider a system the automatically DE-COCKED the rifle when it was opened for a re-load! With this in mind I certainly cannot recommend the Blaser S-2 if the rifle will be used for dangerous game! I certainly would not buy one!

Hope any of this helps in your choice, and that choice is, in the final analyses, your’s

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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gryphon
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #185309 - 06/07/11 09:46 AM

After seeing Mike B`s latest H+H thats what I want

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HendrikNZ
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: gryphon]
      #185310 - 06/07/11 10:34 AM

+1 for the Merkel as best value, but if you can spend a bit more go for the Heym

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Cazadero
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: HendrikNZ]
      #192012 - 17/10/11 02:53 PM

I bought my Krieghoff .470 about 8 years ago, and I'm getting ready to go back to Africa in June of 2012 for (hopefully) my third buffalo.

It shoots very well with Federals, and although I sometimes wish it had ejectors, this rifle will be mine until my will is read someday.

With the see-through rear leaf you really get a great sight picture. Hope this helps.


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DUGABOY1
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #192386 - 24/10/11 04:07 AM

Quote:

read the double rifle book but didn't get much info to this answer. thanks





What book are you refering to?

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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HogPilot
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #192412 - 24/10/11 02:04 PM

I have the Merkel in 500NE and Chapuis in 9.3X74R. The Chapuis is new but I really like it so far. The Merkel is 4 years old now. I've taken 3 Elephant including 1 large bull, several Buffalo, and other assorted game. I can't see ever getting rid of it. It is a great shooter and fits like a glove. My only complaint is that it is a bit light for caliber. I highly recommend the Merkel!

I like the K-Gun and it's decocking system but as Mac says, it doesn't fit me either. I've shot several and find the decocking device to be a nice design.

Again as Mac states, I would stay far away from the Blaser S2. That gun is likely to get you stomped on one day!

Heym is a great rifle but more spendy than the others. If you have the $'s, it is probably the best choice.

One that has not been mentioned here is Searcy. I plan on having Butch build one for me next year in 450/400. I have NEVER heard anything negative about the Searcy's and from what I understand, customer service is second to none. I'm sure someone with firsthand info can fill you in better than I.

For the money, I would go with the Merkel; and that statement is not meant as a compromise. It's a great rifle, hell for stout, easy to match the regulation load, reliable, and doesn't break the bank, relatively speaking.

Just a personal opinion but I would choose the 500NE over the 470NE. The 500 is getting more and more popular now days and finding ammo for it should not be a problem, even in Africa. I don't know if you reload or not but if you plan on shooting a NE double much, you probably will or else you shouldn't fear the Heym or VC price tags. The 500 has a similar recoil level but gives you quite a bit more than the 470. The straight wall cases are easy to reload and last a long time as well. Just something to think about.

Good luck on your search but remember that doubles are like hunting Africa. One will not get it out of your system. In fact, I'm just about as obsessed with DRs as I am Africa itself!

Edited by HogPilot (24/10/11 02:16 PM)


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Anjin
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: HogPilot]
      #194341 - 21/11/11 12:28 PM

Quote:

. . .
One that has not been mentioned here is Searcy. I plan on having Butch build one for me next year in 450/400. I have NEVER heard anything negative about the Searcy's and from what I understand, customer service is second to none. I'm sure someone with firsthand info can fill you in better than I.

. . . .




Let me first say two things. I TOO have never heard anything negative about Searcy doubles.

Second, I have a soft spot in my heart for Butch, because years ago (1985) he converted my LH custom 700 that seized up after the first shot on a cape buff by installing a Winchester 70 CRF extractor and ejector, back when he was in NM and was perhaps the only one doing such work. I'd give him a lot of slack because I have personal experience with his work.

That said, there are two points on which I would like clarification. One, I read a source somewhere that said PHs at SCI were questioned about a certain unnamed US maker of double rifles. The immediate reaction was "way too heavy and ungainly," if I recall correctly. That was a while ago, and even if they might have been referring to Butch's work, I know that he has made some modifications over the years. How many US makers are there?

Terry Wieland, in his Dangerous Game Rifles 2nd edition, refers to an unnamed US maker and the fact that folks asked him why no mention in the first edition. His comments are worth study. Specifically, he describes incidents where the double simply does not work. Does this refer to Butch's rifles? You tell me, I do not know, and I have never seen of handled one of his double rifles. I would certainly like to do so -- and to hear from those who have them.

In fact, I would be delighted to learn those sources do NOT refer to Searcy rifles and that they are as superb as I want them to be.

--------------------
Norm Solberg
American Lawyer In Japan
NRA Life Member for over 40 years


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Kynoch
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Anjin]
      #196601 - 13/12/11 03:44 PM

I would pick up as many rifles as you can in person.


I like the looks of the others better but currently have the k-gun. It fit the best and together with the weighted stock it feels surprisingly good in the recoil department. Had the Chaupis in 9.3 from Kebco (great guy to deal with by the way), but it was a wee bit light for me. I think their 470s are quite nice. Im giving a second Chapuis a chance in a 12 bore slug gun as I recently moved to a predominately slug-only state. Should be fun.


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Cazadero
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Kynoch]
      #197475 - 22/12/11 02:25 AM

Quote:

I would pick up as many rifles as you can in person.





January in Dallas or Reno is a great opportunity for this.

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HogPilot
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Re: Which 470 NEwould you prefer, rifle that is [Re: Anjin]
      #197493 - 22/12/11 04:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

. . .
One that has not been mentioned here is Searcy. I plan on having Butch build one for me next year in 450/400. I have NEVER heard anything negative about the Searcy's and from what I understand, customer service is second to none. I'm sure someone with firsthand info can fill you in better than I.

. . . .




Let me first say two things. I TOO have never heard anything negative about Searcy doubles.

Second, I have a soft spot in my heart for Butch, because years ago (1985) he converted my LH custom 700 that seized up after the first shot on a cape buff by installing a Winchester 70 CRF extractor and ejector, back when he was in NM and was perhaps the only one doing such work. I'd give him a lot of slack because I have personal experience with his work.

That said, there are two points on which I would like clarification. One, I read a source somewhere that said PHs at SCI were questioned about a certain unnamed US maker of double rifles. The immediate reaction was "way too heavy and ungainly," if I recall correctly. That was a while ago, and even if they might have been referring to Butch's work, I know that he has made some modifications over the years. How many US makers are there?

Terry Wieland, in his Dangerous Game Rifles 2nd edition, refers to an unnamed US maker and the fact that folks asked him why no mention in the first edition. His comments are worth study. Specifically, he describes incidents where the double simply does not work. Does this refer to Butch's rifles? You tell me, I do not know, and I have never seen of handled one of his double rifles. I would certainly like to do so -- and to hear from those who have them.

In fact, I would be delighted to learn those sources do NOT refer to Searcy rifles and that they are as superb as I want them to be.




I don't have first hand knowledge of which specific US maker they are speaking of but I would suspect with the comment "way too heavy and ungainly", they are probably talking about CalRigby, not Searcy. Ditto for the second comment.

Edited by HogPilot (22/12/11 04:25 AM)


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