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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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JusticeTrimble
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30-30 vs 303? Which is best?
      #181068 - 08/05/11 10:05 AM

Hey Guys,

I've read some really good threads on here about the 303 British cartridge in double guns. I have also read (somewhere) lateley that at least one double gun company is either making or considering making a 30-30 caliber double rifle. So, while pondering the age old question of "which is best?", I thought I would see just how big a can of worms I can stir up with this question.

I know the .303 has it's advantages, but I also know that not everyone hand loads their ammo and would be better off with a 30-30, so they can easily purchase factory fodder for it. I also know there is a certain amount of nostalgia to owning and shooting a 303 double over an American rifle cartridge like the 30-30, but if we're thinking of mild, mid-sized, medium game rifles, wouldn't the 30-30 be a good choice?

One advantage that I can think of right off the bat about the 30-30 is the fact that you have all those different size bullets to shoot in it. Everything from 110 grains to 220, cast, jacketed, and full-metal jacketed. If you think of all those loads you have to play with, wouldn't the 30-30 be a "better choice"?

So, what are your thoughts on this?

JT

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500Nitro
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: JusticeTrimble]
      #181069 - 08/05/11 10:09 AM


Just a question - not an expert on the 30.30.

Aren't MOST 30-30 bullets flat ended for Lever Actions ?

Also, what is the range like ?

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Ben
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #181071 - 08/05/11 10:22 AM

A double .30/30 would, in my opinion, be the ultimate cane toad stopper.

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500Nitro
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: Ben]
      #181072 - 08/05/11 10:26 AM

Quote:

A double .30/30 would, in my opinion, be the ultimate cane toad stopper.




That is a good one.

.22 cal is pretty good.

I thought my boot was also pretty good, got one going over 20 feet with one kick. They are not very aero dynamic but they fly if you get the power behind them.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: JusticeTrimble]
      #181081 - 08/05/11 02:23 PM

You can get excellent 303 ammunition from Wolf at very reasonable prices. If ammo alone is the criterion and everything else is equal, go for he 303. JMHO and whatever you decide on will be the right choice.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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500Nitro
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #181082 - 08/05/11 02:24 PM

Wolf is cheap but made of steel.

I can think of other cheap ammo that I would use before Wolf.

Edited by 500Nitro (08/05/11 08:27 PM)

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rigbymauser
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #181095 - 08/05/11 06:32 PM

Love to have a Winchester 1895 in .303. champlin Firearms in Oklahoma I believe still has a nice one.
http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=1432

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: rigbymauser]
      #181097 - 08/05/11 07:37 PM

I dislike the projectiles designed for tubular magazines.

Re a .30-30 vs a .303 contest, why not throw in the .30 Super (ie .300 H&H Flanged) and the winner is so obvious, there is no contest.

I like the .30-30 as a lever action round, but the .303 is a traditional DR or bolt action round.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: NitroX]
      #181103 - 08/05/11 09:33 PM

I am a great fan of the .303 Brit. A double chambered in that round is to be cherished and held tight to the breast.

I also like the .30-30, and I can imagine that a well-built and light double in that caliber would be a great woods gun. I have handled a nice Westley Richards double that was chambered in .32 Special, which is the sister to the .30-30. I don't think these are entirely un-heard of.

Still, if given the choice of my Westley in .303 or the other Westley in .32 Spl. I would opt for the .303. VERY BRITISH!

Don't overlook the 8x57JR and 8x57JRS. There are some dandy German doubles in 8mm, and they appear in the market in generous quantities. There was a time when rimmed 8mm brass was hard to find, but not now. My first double rifle was a beauty of a woods gun, a pre-1912 Merkel chambered in 8x57JR. I would gladly have it back.

You are on the right track. There is so much use in the doubles chambered for deer cartridges!

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: CptCurl]
      #181104 - 08/05/11 09:36 PM

Quote:

One advantage that I can think of right off the bat about the 30-30 is the fact that you have all those different size bullets to shoot in it. Everything from 110 grains to 220, cast, jacketed, and full-metal jacketed. If you think of all those loads you have to play with, wouldn't the 30-30 be a "better choice"?



You are on the wrong track with this logic. A double rifle will be regulated to one bullet weight. It is highly unlikely the rifle will properly regulate different weight bullets.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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szihn
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: CptCurl]
      #181117 - 09/05/11 12:56 AM

"Best" is a slippery word.
The 30-30 is better if getting ammo easily is of high concern.

The 303 is more powerful, and more versatile.

The 34-40 Krag is good too, being between the 30-30 and the 303.

The 30 Russian is the best of them all in a 30 cal, but harder to get reloadable brass for, and you need a strong action if you make a double in this caliber because it's running higher pressure then the others and had more volume too.

Any of these are going to have pros and cons that vary depending on the use of reloaded ammo,vs Factory ammo.

So what is "best" depends of the "mission" the rifle is being called on to perform.

If I were building a double rifle that was ONLY going to be used for deer hunting, and ONLY used in areas where shots would be under 175 yards, I would probably go with the 30-30. I would use handloaded ammo with 150 grain spitzers in that rifle, and regulate it for that load.

If I were going to use in for a broader cross section of my hunting, I would go with the 303, with 180 grain bullets, or maybe the 7.62X54R with 220 grain bullets (made on two .308” bore barrels)

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DarylS
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: szihn]
      #181120 - 09/05/11 01:37 AM

Quote:

szhin - "Best" is a slippery word.

If I were going to use in for a broader cross section of my hunting, I would go with the 303, with 180 grain bullets, or maybe the 7.62X54R with 220 grain bullets (made on two .308” bore barrels)



If both are in a DR, you've a good point, however, I'd still go .303, in a .308 bore for those same 220gr. bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dr_Deer
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: JusticeTrimble]
      #181138 - 09/05/11 12:57 PM

Quote:

Hey Guys,

I've read some really good threads on here about the 303 British cartridge in double guns. I have also read (somewhere) lateley that at least one double gun company is either making or considering making a 30-30 caliber double rifle.



The .30-30 Double you are probably thinking of is the Heym 26B U/O. An interesting firearm that was (is?) available with a black receiver and laminate stock to complete it's "brush gun" utility. The last one I heard about was regulated for federal 170g ammo.

As CptCurl points out, just because there is a variety of ammo doesn't mean it'll shoot more than one weight. In the smaller, owner adjustable, doubles you dont have to go far to hear tales of regulation woe from owners of 7x65R's who tried to run 175g pills in rifles set for 139gs etc.

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JusticeTrimble
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #181139 - 09/05/11 01:27 PM

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to clarify my point about all the different size bullets you could shoot in the 30-30. I know you pretty much have to stay with the load the rifle is regulated with, but in some cases, you may be able to lighten the load and the bullet and still get some accuracy in it.

Another advantage is the costs associated with reloading your ammo. I have done some checking and found the components for the .303 are slightly higher in price than are the 30-30 components.

So, if you wanted to compare the costs, and not the nostalgia of the calibers, I think the 30-30 wins that one.

So far, we've gotten some great responses on this issue. So, to get this going a little more, lets expand the question.

What would be your choice of caliber if you had to choose between the two and why?

Thanks and take care!!

JT

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500Nitro
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: JusticeTrimble]
      #181141 - 09/05/11 01:32 PM


Justice

The 75% rule may apply but that is using the same powder load but a bullet that is 75% the weight of what it is regulated for.

Works in most DR's but isn't a reason to choose one over the other.

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AkMike
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #181144 - 09/05/11 03:02 PM

IIRC Chapuis also makes a 'dirty thirty' in their lineup.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Yochanan
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: szihn]
      #181149 - 09/05/11 04:59 PM

The selection of ammo and components is a bit better in 7,62x53/4r than 30-30. Sako currently got 5 different factory loads. Norma 1 and Lapua 2, S&B 2 loads. S&B still offers 303 British ammo. 7,62x53/4R is proofed to 56565 psi and 303 British, 52939 psi and 49000psi (SAAMI)

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: JusticeTrimble]
      #181161 - 09/05/11 09:05 PM

Quote:


Another advantage is the costs associated with reloading your ammo. I have done some checking and found the components for the .303 are slightly higher in price than are the 30-30 components.

So, if you wanted to compare the costs, and not the nostalgia of the calibers, I think the 30-30 wins that one.




Bit of a moot point when talking about double rifles, and the difference must be tiny and very dependent on location.

The simple fact is, if buying ammo, the .303 will out do the .30-30 everytime.

But who buys ammo for a double and doesn't reload?

If buying components, I can't see the components being any different in price?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (12/05/11 05:01 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: NitroX]
      #181182 - 10/05/11 02:15 AM

What do you get if you lighten what is already a light load?

The .30/30 cannot/could not stand to be lightened and still be called a big game ctg.

It is at it's best with 170gr. bullets. The Power Points and Silvertips are perhaps the best of the bunch.

In a DR, it could be loaded with pointy bullets to lengthen it's range slightly - handloads only, of course.

At best, it is a weak round compared to the .303, which seems to have every advantage.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Kebco
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: DarylS]
      #181372 - 12/05/11 11:34 AM

I am having a 303 with a second set of 375 FM barrels built for myself. Still a little way from delivery, but the factory has recently teased me with a pic.


Edited by CptCurl (12/05/11 08:19 PM)

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RLI
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: Kebco]
      #181383 - 12/05/11 01:13 PM

Its seems you like the .303 but want a .308" projectile due to variety of more bullets available, I would look at.....

.300 Flanged (Rimmed .300H&H)
.30R Blaser
.30/40 Krag..
.307 Win.

looking at the above they all will do the job but I would stick with the .303 British cartridge,

Cheers
Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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Sarg
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: Kebco]
      #181387 - 12/05/11 03:44 PM

Ken , That is a Bloody nice looking action , you will be wrapped with that Im sure !

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DarylS
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: Sarg]
      #181423 - 13/05/11 01:45 AM

The fences are rather striking, aren't they.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Kebco
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: DarylS]
      #181488 - 14/05/11 12:01 AM

I hope to have it before Sept so I can take it to the Vintigers in Easton MD.
I picked the 303 because it was a classic and still easy to find ammo/brass etc without going "metric" this time.

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DarylS
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Re: 30-30 vs 303? Which is best? [Re: Kebco]
      #181489 - 14/05/11 12:23 AM

What are the groove diameters?

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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