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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Cast Bullets
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Altamaha
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Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Woodleigh Hydro as a cast bullet [Re: 9.3x57]
      #192572 - 27/10/11 12:10 AM

Quote:

The Hydro does have a poor flight form. That is a ballistic fact. As for most shooting, who cares, since it takes place at shorter ranges than those where the poor form makes for noticeable degradation in performance.

No one has as yet made a better big bore cast bullet than the .458 caliber 402 grain {wheelweights} Lee Hollow Point. Front HP explodes and sheds and leaves a 300+ grain shaft to penetrate deeply. Just like a Nosler Partition.

Too bad they don't make it anymore. Nothing is like it.

I can only imagine a 550-600 grain version for the .450-class Nitro guns where the bullet could be started at 1700+ fps. An expanding bullet with near FMJ penetration. Good bloodletting near impact and a hole on the other side of whatever walks. You Africans and Aussies shooting all that heavy game would put poor Woodleigh out of business as you'd roll all your own for darn near free...





You are making me think up another project. A longer bullet than the ones shown in my photos, but hollow point. I have a couple of hollow point 44 molds, would be real easy to make up a similar one in 458. The long bullet would work fine in my 45-110 Sharpes replica.

If only I lived in the land down under, would be fun on the buffalo.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States
Re: Woodleigh Hydro as a cast bullet [Re: Altamaha]
      #192582 - 27/10/11 01:29 AM

Alta;

HP's have long gotten a ridiculously unnecessary bad rap.

MOST HP's are made for shallow penetration or near fragmentation of the bullet, but they need not be. A long for caliber cast bullet w/ HP offers all the benefits of the HP PLUS the benefits of deep penetration common to cast bullets and FMJ's.

Seriously, a .458 caliber 500-600 grain properly designed HP cast bullet would do well on most all shots on heavy game. As you know, cast bullets can be made quite hard.

Years ago Jack Lott wrote a piece about a friend of his that lived in Thailand and illegally, I think} shot big whatever-they-call-tehm there buff. He only had a limited supply of factory bullets for the .458 Win Mag rifle he shot and used them, IIRC, in his .458 Lott Jack built for him. The .458 Win was carried by his "gunbearer" or servant or something and got the cast ones. Stroy short, Jack said the cast bullets performed very well at .458 Win Mag velocities and I see no reason to argue. A 500 grain hardened, cast bullet fired at 2000 fps should do everything a FMJ does. And it is hard to the core, not just hard at the jacket surface like some FMJ's.

It is dumbbraindead to harden wheelweights. Drop'em straight from the mold to a bucket of water PLACED SO NO WATER EVER GETS IN THE MELT.

Anyway, a longish bullet with a good HP should produce "custom bullet" performance on big game. In .458 if 80 or even 100 grains was blown off leaving a shaft of 400-420 grains to penetrate it should produce everything a guy wants in an expanding bullet on big game.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Altamaha
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Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
Re: Woodleigh Hydro as a cast bullet [Re: 9.3x57]
      #192618 - 27/10/11 07:39 AM

Agreed on all counts.

I had a chat with a PH many years ago, seems he and his mates were playing with hard cast bullets in a 458 Lott by firing them into dead elephants. Penetration was equal to, sometimes better, than FMJ Hornady's.

After I finish up a couple of stocks I will play around with making some molds. I have a truck load of hard pipe lead from a mill demolition, the stuff casts very well and is a bit harder than wheel weight lead. A little of the above mentioned babbitt helps it flow out real nice in the molds.

Advantage of the 45-110 is I may use very long bullets!

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DarylSModerator
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Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Woodleigh Hydro as a cast bullet [Re: Altamaha]
      #196964 - 17/12/11 06:29 AM

Came across this thread and thought I'd add what was noted in a written commmunication between myself and Elmer Keith, back in about 79 or 80. Elmer suggested upon questioning, that I go ahead and load the 550gr. Lyman bullets, "hard cast" - about brinel 16 so as to not make them too brittle and shoot anything in Africa with them I wanted.

At that time, my two best loads were getting 1,975fps and 2,000fps with the heavy cast bullets and with with wonderful accuracy from my 'little' .458 2" that had a long throat. I also told him I was getting 2,050 with a 510 Winchester solids and he said to go with the cast bullet with no further mention as to why. He noted they'd be quite capable if placed properly.

Of course, the Lyman 550gr. had a very wide, flat nose, which creates cavitation in excess of that produced by a round nose.

I highly value our phone conversations and written correspondence of so long ago. Elmer was responsible for the purchase of my first M29 4" as my duty revolver, and in return for a very close friend of mine, also a policeman at that time, for buying his.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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eljefedouble
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Reged: 23/04/06
Posts: 189
Loc: Vic, Australia
Re: Woodleigh Hydro as a cast bullet [Re: DarylS]
      #197793 - 25/12/11 03:26 PM

Daryl, in the 80's,I read about a handgun hard cast bullet by Dean Grennel. Labelled the ' flying ashtray' had its roots in Elmer's design. IIRC, it performed splendidly at 44Mag velocities in a handgun.

--------------------
"it dont mean a thing, if it aint got no zing"
"Toa bunduki mkubwa"

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DarylSModerator
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Posts: 26516
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Re: Woodleigh Hydro as a cast bullet [Re: eljefedouble]
      #197831 - 26/12/11 05:37 AM

Quote:

Daryl, in the 80's,I read about a handgun hard cast bullet by Dean Grennel. Labelled the ' flying ashtray' had its roots in Elmer's design. IIRC, it performed splendidly at 44Mag velocities in a handgun.



I wasn't aware of a cast bullet back then called a "Flying Ashtray", however that moniker was 'also?' attributed to the .451" pistol/revolver Hollow Point bullet made by Speer weighing 200gr. It had a HUGE opening on it's nose, hense the "Flying Ashtray" moniker.

We used to load it to about 1,050fps in the Colt New Service or .45 ACP and it made wonderful cavities in mud, clay and feral dogs. On hard objects like windshields, car doors, or wood, the nose opening would close over and it would hike on through like a solid, although generaly tumbling.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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eljefedouble
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Reged: 23/04/06
Posts: 189
Loc: Vic, Australia
Re: Woodleigh Hydro as a cast bullet [Re: DarylS]
      #205694 - 22/03/12 12:41 AM

Just to revive an interesting topic- ulterior motive being I want to learn and start casting
But those big lead pills pique my interest.Having used the Hydros in my 9.3, i was initially sceptical of the 'flight worthiness', and yes, I've tried em upto 200m when I lived in Qld.-bloody smashing.In 2 words? Woody's RULE.

--------------------
"it dont mean a thing, if it aint got no zing"
"Toa bunduki mkubwa"

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