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Ingwe
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Loc: Texas
Why not more head shots?
      #17779 - 10/08/04 02:28 PM

I have been wondering, why do hunters always put their first shot in the chest on DG like buff, lion, hippo (on land). I mean, if the animal is unwounded, not moving, why not just go ahead and stick it in the head or neck and call it a day? I mean, I know people are worried about messing up their trophies and all, but like they say, the taxidermist can patch his hide a lot easier than the doctor can patch yours..

Ingwe

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Will
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17786 - 10/08/04 05:15 PM

I assume you are being facetious.

I have brained a variety of game, including buff and elephant, but it has to be a near 100% sure shot.

You barely miss the brain on a buff and all you are going to do is piss them off.

It is a great option, but don't blow it. After all the stories of late of the charging heart/lung shot (gut shot?) buffalo, I assume there are few that can pull off the brain shot except under ideal conditions.

Under ideal conditions and 100% certainty, it is the best shot to take. But a "man has to know his limitations."

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17787 - 10/08/04 06:10 PM

Try shooting a cape buffalo in the brain when broadside.



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Ingwe
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: NitroX]
      #17810 - 11/08/04 01:56 AM

No, when a buff is broadside, you can't make a brain shot, but you can stick it in his neck.

A lot of times when the conditions are not good for a brain shot, the neck shot is easily available. It just seems to me like I see a lot of cases where people take the heart/lung shot, when the neck would have been just as easy. One of my favorite shots in North America is to stick the bullet right where the head and neck are joined, and the animal is virtually decapitated. To me, it is just as easy to put the crosshairs there as the heart/lung area. And I understand what you mean about barely missing the brain, but if you get your shot just a little too far back with a lung shot, you end up gutshooting him and that is just as bad. I understand, though, that the heart/lung area is a bigger target. I don't know, I just usually put the crosshairs at the base of the skull, pull the trigger - game, set, match. I wonder if maybe a lot of guys are better shots than they think they are, but they lack the confidence to try that kind of shot. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. It just never seemed all that tough to me. I am planning a trip to Monterrey after the first of the year for bear, lion, and feral cattle. I will for sure be shooting necks and heads on the feral cattle, if at all possible.

Maybe the difference is just in different people's perception of "ideal conditions." I mean, maybe to me a certain set of conditions looks just fine for a neck or head shot, and then to another person the conditions seem terrible for that kind of shot. My philosophy is that if you try the head or neck shot, yes, you might miss-but you for sure won't make it if you don't try. I remember being scared to try it the first few times I did it, in case I miss. But then after I did it a few times I had a lot of confidence in taking that shot.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17813 - 11/08/04 02:09 AM

In reply to:

No, when a buff is broadside, you can't make a brain shot, but you can stick it in his neck.




Yes very true. I was playing silly buggers with you. The cape buffalos horns sweep down further than an Aussie water buff and prevent the broadside brain shot.





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500grains
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17818 - 11/08/04 03:40 AM

There are plenty of incidents in which buffalo, etc. are wounded with a chest shot gone bad. The number would only go up if PH's allowed more folks to try head shots.

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shakari
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: 500grains]
      #17819 - 11/08/04 03:58 AM

I'd add to that by saying that the neck shot on a Cape Buff is probably the one that gets stuffed up the most by hunters......which is why us PHs prefer most clients to take an engine room shot instead.

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DoubleD
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: shakari]
      #17833 - 11/08/04 09:09 AM

Lung-heart, larger target, margin of error larger

Brain, small well guarded target, no margin for error

Brainstem real small target,requiring precise placement and alignment of shot.





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AdamTayler
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17879 - 12/08/04 05:16 AM

Confidence is probably the main factor. The second is that if I've travelled half way across the world and spent a good deal of hard earned cash, I'll take the heart/lung shot to be certain. I still take heart/lung shots on moose (yes I know it is not a DG animal, I did not shoot my grizzly in the head either).

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: AdamTayler]
      #17892 - 12/08/04 09:42 AM

Personally I think breaking some big bones like shoulders helps. A brain shot or neck spine shot would be great but if you miss you may just have kissed good-bye your trophy fee or worse.

They do die from heart, lung and shoulder shots too you know.



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DUGABOY1
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #17986 - 15/08/04 05:47 AM

In reply to:

A lot of times when the conditions are not good for a brain shot, the neck shot is easily available. It just seems to me like I see a lot of cases where people take the heart/lung shot, when the neck would have been just as easy. One of my favorite shots in North America is to stick the bullet right where the head and neck are joined, and the animal is virtually decapitated. To me, it is just as easy to put the crosshairs there as the heart/lung area.



Well. like Dizzy Dean said, "It ain't bragging if you can do it!"

The trouble with this idea is than even guys who shoot Buffalo all the time, can seldom make those shots! The nature of Cape Buffalo is such that a VERY close miss on either of these shots, is going to result in someone haveing to go into the weeds after a very pissed off Cape Buffalo. I'm hopeing if I'm with you you don't try either of these shots,unless you are a very lucky man!

The brain shot is researved, IMO, for when nothing else will stop him, and he is very close, too close to miss! Because if he is close enough to need a brain shot, it had better be dead center, because, in most cases, there will not be another chance!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
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Ingwe
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #17998 - 15/08/04 02:31 PM

Mac,

I agree with you 100% that having to go into the weeds to sort out an angry bite-back is not good. That is precisely the reason I like to just go ahead and decapitate the dang thing and be done with it. The thing I don't like about the chest shot, is that even if you make a good one, there is still a pretty good chance he's gonna run off into the briars, especially here in east Texas where the briars and thorns are so ridiculously dense. And even if you don't have to worry about a charge, you still have to find him, and in this briar patch that is often a nightmare for me, especially when I shoot something right at sunset! Another thing that makes it kind of a pain is the fact that when it comes to tracking, if there is not a decent blood spoor, I have a problem because I am not exactly what you would call an Apache scout. I do not have PH's and trackers to help me when I shoot him in the chest and he runs into the thorn and briar scrub.

And with a chest shot on a buffalo, if you only get one lung, you could REALLY have a lot of drama on your hands.

I will give you an example. Back in June I decapitated a wild boar. I could have just as easily heart shot him, but the clearing he was in was only about 5 yards across. The last thing in the world I felt like doing that night was going into that tangled briar mess and sort out an angry chest shot wild boar alone. And even if he dies before I reach him, I don't have to worry about a charge, but that doesn't make finding him in all that crap any easier. Why in the heck would someone want to have all that drama on their hands? I hate drama! I say just decapitate the dang thing and call it a day.

I know what you are thinking - I need to improve my tracking skills. Yes well, believe me, I try, and I would like nothing more than to be the next Davy Crockett, but as of now, I am not quite there yet. Even if I were, though, it is still a thousand times easier for me just to decapitate the thing, and head for the casa, eat dinner and get a warm shower.

Obviously, the decapitation shot is not available for me every time, but IMHO, all too often, I see people fail to take advantage of it when the animal is just BEGGING to be decapitated!

Ingwe

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atkinson6
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #18530 - 28/08/04 06:21 AM

Ingwe,
I have shot buff in the head on more than several ocassions, but then I don't have to pay the very high trophy fee for them....

If I were a paying client shooting a buff I would not risk a head or neck shot because if your off a tad and get meat then you gonna pay for that bad boy...a lesson learned just for showing off, not smart.

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Ingwe
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: atkinson6]
      #18547 - 28/08/04 10:13 AM

Ray,

I see your point - I have never had to pay a trophy fee for anything I kill. But, I never do it to show off - in fact I am usually alone and there is nobody to show off to. I do it because I am alone and I don't like going into the briars alone after angry chest shot boars, or even less angry chest shot animals, often as it is quickly getting dark. It is my firm belief that percentage wise, more people are killed and maimed by chest shot animals than by head shot animals, though I admit I have no proof of this. Just MHO. I am the first to admit that I am far from being the next Karamojo Bell - I know many who shoot better than I could ever hope for. I always thought of myself as just your plain old, everyday, garden variety, Texas rifleman. To me it was just always the normal, natural, logical, safe thing to do, and I never knew til I got on the internet that most other people considered it to be "too risky," "too difficult," or "showing off." I didn't know that, and that is the truth. I just thought I was doing the safe and logical thing, and couldn't understand why so few others, (many of whom shoot better than I), did it. I guess now I know why, so my question has been answered.

Let me reiterate that, if the decapitation shot is not there for me, then I WILL NOT try to force it. I will gladly take the chest shot if that is the only thing I am offered. But if I am offered the bang flop, I am not going to pass it up, trophy fee or no trophy fee. I feel like if I am too scared to do what I believe to be safe and right just because I might fail and lose my money, then I need to just go back to shooting aliens on a video game with the children. Heck, how many people would consider a head shot to be "too risky," and then turn around and plop down more money on a Vegas dice table on a single roll than I make in a month? More than a bunch, I am sure. I wouldn't put a dime of my money on a dice table, but I would take a bang flop every day if it was there for me. I could be wrong though, I don't know. Maybe one day I will get dead doing that, and then I won't do it any more.

Please know that I am truly not trying to be combative or make anyone mad - that is just the way I feel and I only hold myself to my own philosophies. I do not begrudge anyone else their philosophies or think badly of anyone who has a different view. I am all too aware that in the end they could prove to be right and I could prove to be wrong. In the meantime I will just keep doing what I do and let everybody else do what they do best. Live and let live, I always say..

Ciao,

Ingwe





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Will
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #18604 - 29/08/04 05:48 PM

Enough, enough.

The annals of African hunting are full of guys that tried to brain or neck shoot buffalo and other dangerous game and screwed it up, repeatedly.

You can obviously do what you want, but don't come back with some bleeding-heart story of lost game or lost body parts!

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Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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atkinson6
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Will]
      #18694 - 31/08/04 07:52 AM

Ingwe,
Showing off was not a good statement on my part and was not intended to flame your posts, nor was it directed at you personally, for that I apoligise and will be more carefull with my responses which are pretty much spontainias for the most part....

As to the head shot, I have used it successfully many, many times, but again if I blew it,which I never have, I would not be accessed a trophy fee, but would feel pretty bad about breaking a jaw or what not, on that same subject however I have seen many many animals wounded with body shots and I have wounded animals with the body shots, so there you go!! I have wounded 5 animals in my 60 year hunting career and wounded 3 of them on one day, that was not my finest moment I assure you...Still I own up to my mistakes, its amazing how many hunters can't remember the animals they wounded...

Nothing takes the place of good shooting and you obviously are a good shot and have confidence in your ability, or you would not have broached the subject..but on the whole I would not advise the head shot for the average hunter if there is such a critter....Most should take the biggest target they are afforded....

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Ingwe
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: atkinson6]
      #18926 - 04/09/04 03:58 PM

Ray, I didn't take it like you were trying to flame me - I knew what you were trying to say - no apology is needed. We're cool. Actually, in my book you get a lot of credit for telling about one of your "bad hair days." Boy, that was a bad hair day for sure - but you are right again about the fact that we all have them but so few will own up to them. I have certainly had my fair share. In fact, I had one yesterday when I was fishing for sharks at the Galveston jetties, and I stuck the back of a finger with a big fish hook trying to get a hardhead catfish off the line. I wasn't paying enough attention, and I ended up having to cut the hook and pass it about 2 inches under the skin toward the nail and then turn it up and poke it out through the skin and pull it out through the new hole. It hurt pretty bad, but I think I felt worse about being so stupid. I got the hardhead back, though. I turned around and used him for bait, and caught a nice bull shark with him! Ha ha ha! When people try to make it out like they have never had a bad hair day - rather than impressing me, which is what they are trying to do, they do the opposite -they make me kind of nervous because I know they are not being entirely truthful.

Actually, if you wouldn't mind telling the story, I am curious as to what happened that day that you wounded the 3 animals.

Ingwe

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atkinson6
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #19482 - 28/09/04 06:32 AM

I later found my gun was shooting 4 inches high, but that should not have made any difference on the buffalo or the other animals, just happened thats all, and I was really ready to hang it up for good...I suppose when it rains it pours...a bad feeling for sure..

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atkinson6
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: Ingwe]
      #19483 - 28/09/04 06:33 AM

I later found my gun was shooting 4 inches high, but that should not have made any difference on the buffalo or the other animals, just happened thats all, and I was really ready to hang it up for good...I suppose when it rains it pours...a bad feeling for sure..

After resighting things came back together for the rest of the hunt however...

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Dark_Helmet
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Re: Why not more head shots? [Re: atkinson6]
      #19862 - 20/10/04 11:53 AM

this seems pretty simple to me....

any animal, with gaping holes in his lungs and the associated vascular system, will die, its just a matter of time. the brain shot is like loading three down and one in, but 3 of them are rubber bullets at 1000fps and, and only one is a full tilt load.

Probability requires that your expected resuld is one very alive, and very angry animal.

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