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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Camels
      #177117 - 14/03/11 03:56 PM

I may have gained free access to a property with Camels and Brumbys.

Does anybody here have any experience with shooting Camels ?
Suggested calibres ?
Anything strange about their anatomy ?

All help gratefully received.


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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177118 - 14/03/11 04:32 PM

As the old member of la "Legion Etrangere said: "You don't want to get an ugly one!"

(Handy hint: carry lipstick)


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chemarq
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Posts: 50
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Re: Camels [Re: kamilaroi]
      #177119 - 14/03/11 04:53 PM

I imagine as quite big animals... you would need a medium-heavvy caliber.
I would go to choose anything over the 8 mm, or 9,3 mm

But sincerely... i have to confess that i never spoke to anybody who shooted one of them.... probably you will explain us much more ... and we will learn from your experience.

Maybe is a good moment to use one of these big calibers thst slept in the back of the armoury waiting your next trip to Africa.... and check the results on camel meat... at least a camel is part of Africa...isnīt it ????

Good luck..!!

Jose

--------------------
Spitskop Safaris - South Africa

www.spitskop.co.za


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500Nitro
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Re: Camels [Re: chemarq]
      #177120 - 14/03/11 05:05 PM


We might need the Camels to go to Libya soon !!! LOL


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
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Re: Camels [Re: kamilaroi]
      #177121 - 14/03/11 05:40 PM

Quote:

As the old member of la "Legion Etrangere said: "You don't want to get an ugly one!"

(Handy hint: carry lipstick)




Lol. I shouldn't be surprised to get a reply like that should I ? (Thumbs Up). I can see a ballistics report with a difference in the future.


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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: 500Nitro]
      #177122 - 14/03/11 05:54 PM

I've shot camels with the .30/30, a .308, a 7mm STW and the .416 Rigby. My Dad shot one with the .22-250, and the station crew got after them with a .223, but that is just asking for trouble and lost animals (my Dad didn't lose any, but none of us are trying that again). I've also shot a couple with traditional bow-and-arrow.

I love big bore rifles with open sights, as you know. Now, there are some camels and places where it is quite feasible to try this, and other camels and places where it is impossible to get close enough. If the camels have been bombed-up before, they won't let you get very close. If you hide at a water hole, they will be wary, but they'll get close enough for you to big bore them. Depending on the vegetation, they can be stalked to big bore range if they haven't been bombed before, but you won't completely surprise them very often as is usually the case with hunting goats or pigs or buffalo - camels are hardly ever surprised, due to their height and the open country, but the naive ones will allow you to get big bore close out of curiosity.

One of my favourite things in the whole wide world is sitting under some scant shade at a dam or trough all day in the desert, and just waiting, watching, resting, photographing birds and scenery, and finally shooting. You can have action any time of day in the desert, and sometimes action every hour or so. The best action is during drought times, and with the blessed Spanish lady around, the next drought might be some time away. Prolific action against camels will have to wait until the interior dries a bit.

I will eventually purchase my own flat-shooter, specifically for the wary camels at long range and plains game in Africa. I would be very happy with a .300WM for this. As I daydream about future days spent by a desert dam, I imagine that I would like to have with me my longbow and wooden arrows in case that chance arises, as well as for silent plinking fun to pass the time; and one of my big bore rifles should the animals come close, but not close enough; and that .300WM for the wary ones, or to knock the ones over that retreat quickly once the big bore or bow has its action up close. A good book, too; something like a Louis L'Amour western seems to suit the desert, and is easier to pack around than Dostoevsky or Tolstoy.

But, camels and horses have a boiler room just like all of God's creatures, and when you put the right bullet there, the job is done. With the camel, just don't shoot low into that resting pad at the bottom of his chest between his front legs, because there's nothing vital there.

Have fun!


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Ben
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Re: Camels [Re: Ben]
      #177123 - 14/03/11 05:57 PM

You can see that resting pad in my avatar.

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Ben
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Re: Camels [Re: Ben]
      #177124 - 14/03/11 05:59 PM

.375 H&H is another good calibre, of course. I haven't personally shot any camels with this calibre, but have observed it in action against them.

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
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Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: Ben]
      #177126 - 14/03/11 06:01 PM

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=163104&an=0&page=2#Post163104

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
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Re: Camels [Re: Ben]
      #177127 - 14/03/11 06:03 PM

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=165443&an=0&page=0#Post165443

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eagle27
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Re: Camels [Re: Ben]
      #177128 - 14/03/11 06:11 PM

Hopefully you can get within "spitting" distance of them. He He!!!!!!

Seriously, we used to chase them in our 4WDs up in the northern western desert areas and some were pretty big and quite fast on the move. We weren't allowed firearms in our work camp so didn't shoot any. Depending on the type of country you have to hunt I would think something in the 7mm or 30cal range to reach out and retain energy would do the trick. 7mm Mag would be my choice. They are not dangerous at range so I wouldn't think anything more than a deer rifle is needed.


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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: eagle27]
      #177130 - 14/03/11 06:17 PM

They can carry quite a few imperfect hits at longer ranges, too, and they have rather big bones that can soak-up energy. My Dad's pride-and-joy is his 7mm STW, and it sure does work; but I'd still rather something slightly larger if I was buying for this sort of shooting. However, if you have a .270 or a 7mm-something, take it into action with good bullets!

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Rule303
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Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177132 - 14/03/11 06:32 PM

John, I have not hunted camels but I figure your 9.3 would more than do the job.

Good hunting.

Cheers

Greg


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: Rule303]
      #177133 - 14/03/11 07:44 PM

Ben, that was a very descriptive and helpful reply. I could visualise you in the shade of an isolated pump house/tank stand, waiting and taking it all in.

Greg. I've suddenly realised that I have a calibre gap between my 264WM/7x57 and 9.3x62. I was thinking the 9.3 with 250 Accubonds would be the go.


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Cinghiale
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Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177136 - 14/03/11 10:29 PM

300Win Mag is a brilliant Camel gun good 180's and they are gooooooooooooooooone!

JMHO....

But you don't have one yet either....

MOG


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Camels [Re: Cinghiale]
      #177139 - 14/03/11 11:04 PM

I reckon a medium calibre is fine, from the .270, 7mm etc and up. Proper shooting and bullet placement of course.

However use a big bore if you wish, for fun.

When I have my 8x68S, that will be what I would use.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Dr_Deer
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Reged: 23/02/09
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Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177159 - 15/03/11 08:19 AM

Quote:

I may have gained free access to a property with Camels and Brumbys.

Does anybody here have any experience with shooting Camels ?
Suggested calibres ?
Anything strange about their anatomy ?

All help gratefully received.




If I was shooting camels again I'd take the .375H&H and load it with flat shooting 260g NABs. Anything from the 7mm 160g would probably be effective but I can think of better things to do in 40 degree heat than chase up blood spoor on a gibber plain.

As for anatomy, just remember the spine lies dorsal in the neck - a broadside shot to the centre of the neck can severe the windpipe and nick the blood vessels without breaking the spine Just what you need when being watched and expecting it to drop on the spot


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tim416
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Reged: 24/01/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Maine
Re: Camels [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #177162 - 15/03/11 09:36 AM

Camels?!
I didn't know it was possible to hunt em.
I was stationed in the Middle East when in the U.S. military and have wanted to kill these things since one spit all over me in Bahrain.
Australia just moved to the top of my hunting destinations list!

--------------------
Tim
tim@farrensafaris.com
www.farrenglobaladventures.com


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: tim416]
      #177163 - 15/03/11 09:50 AM

Quote:

Camels?!
I didn't know it was possible to hunt em.
I was stationed in the Middle East when in the U.S. military and have wanted to kill these things since one spit all over me in Bahrain.
Australia just moved to the top of my hunting destinations list!





"Hunt" or Kill ?

Haven't hunted them but know plenty of people who drive around until they find them.

Would like to get one on the tally sheet one day.

.


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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: 500Nitro]
      #177175 - 15/03/11 05:42 PM

Quote:


"Hunt" or Kill ?

Haven't hunted them but know plenty of people who drive around until they find them.

Would like to get one on the tally sheet one day.





Yes, they are often shot from a vehicle or from near a vehicle. It is seldom wise or profitable to set-out from camp on foot hoping to find one. I do not count as real hunting the camels I have culled from the window, but I do count as real hunting those ambushed at water or those spotted from the vehicle and then stalked. Remember, you may spot a camel two kilometres away from the vehicle, and not be able to access him except by walking. Other than ambush, covering lots of ground in a vehicle is the next best thing, and is almost a necessity when trying for camels. The classic camel hunt might be to drive through the dunes, stopping every kilometre or so to climb to the top and glass, and then, should you be lucky-enough to spot some on some distant dune, drive as close as you can, and then cover the remainder, often a couple of kilometres, on foot. Once the shooting starts, the remaining camels will stretch-out their long legs to places safer, and it is very difficult to run through the scrub after them, churning your way up the next dune hoping to get a shot, but just catching a glimpse of them as they disappear over the dune across the valley. But yes, they are often spotted then stalked from the vehicle, which is why, given the choice, I would prefer to ambush them at water because to me it seems a richer experience.


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: tim416]
      #177205 - 16/03/11 07:34 AM

Quote:

Camels?!
I didn't know it was possible to hunt em.
I was stationed in the Middle East when in the U.S. military and have wanted to kill these things since one spit all over me in Bahrain.
Australia just moved to the top of my hunting destinations list!




Tim,

In case no one has done so, welcome to Nitro Express. It is good to see an American based outfitter joining. Yes, camels are a feral introduced pest here, free to hunt with the land holders permission.

If I gain access then it will cost me fuel to drive the 1,300km there 1,300km back, plus food. There are some exhorbitant prices being charged to hunt these and the costs to do so, are very high. As the majority of game in Australia is introduced and highly destructive, apart from making a clean kill, ethics for me don't really apply.

A camel is one to tick off my 'to do' list and I will be actively pursuing this opportunity.

GTG, I've got to re zero the 9.3x62 with the 250 Accubonds


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177207 - 16/03/11 07:38 AM


"As the majority of game in Australia is introduced and highly destructive, apart from making a clean kill, ethics for me don't really apply."


Well said. I think it is also applicable that a fair fw of the bigger introduced species - Camel, Buffalo, Donkey's, Horse, Scrub bulls, pigs et al are often few and far between and a lot of distance needs to be covered to find them, hence why some are shot from close to vehicles - I personally don't shoot from a vehicle at these (pigs being the exception), preferring to get out and get closer by foot if possible.

On the other side of the coin, spending a weekend walking long distances along creeks and waterholes after Buff, boars etc is great hunting.

.


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tim416
.224 member


Reged: 24/01/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Maine
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177209 - 16/03/11 08:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Camels?!
I didn't know it was possible to hunt em.
I was stationed in the Middle East when in the U.S. military and have wanted to kill these things since one spit all over me in Bahrain.
Australia just moved to the top of my hunting destinations list!




Tim,

In case no one has done so, welcome to Nitro Express. It is good to see an American based outfitter joining. Yes, camels are a feral introduced pest here, free to hunt with the land holders permission.

If I gain access then it will cost me fuel to drive the 1,300km there 1,300km back, plus food. There are some exhorbitant prices being charged to hunt these and the costs to do so, are very high. As the majority of game in Australia is introduced and highly destructive, apart from making a clean kill, ethics for me don't really apply.

A camel is one to tick off my 'to do' list and I will be actively pursuing this opportunity.

GTG, I've got to re zero the 9.3x62 with the 250 Accubonds




Thanks for the welcome. I just found this site when I heard the news of it going down temporarily elswhere. I am enjoying reading the posts and learning a little about the game and hunting culture of Australia.
I have been hunting Africa since 1995 and now spend from April to September in Zimbabwe managing a lodge in the Matetsi Safari area.
Thanks again for the welcome and looking forward to reading the posts here.

--------------------
Tim
tim@farrensafaris.com
www.farrenglobaladventures.com


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39414
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Camels [Re: tim416]
      #177281 - 17/03/11 08:12 PM

Quote:


Thanks for the welcome. I just found this site when I heard the news of it going down temporarily elswhere. I am enjoying reading the posts and learning a little about the game and hunting culture of Australia.
I have been hunting Africa since 1995 and now spend from April to September in Zimbabwe managing a lodge in the Matetsi Safari area.
Thanks again for the welcome and looking forward to reading the posts here.




Tim,

See even negative publicity works!

Tim, welcome. There are estimates of several hundred thousand to even over a million (?) camels in the Australian deserts and they are a considerable pest. Getting access to them, and getting to them is part of the difficulty of the hunt.

Which lodge in Matetsi do you manage? Which block?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: NitroX]
      #177340 - 18/03/11 04:00 PM

Well it looks like a go'er for late June.

Dingos, Pigs and Brumbys are also on the agenda. I plan to be self sufficient and swag it from a mobile camp packed into my twin cab 4x4.

I've got a 9.3x62 load, spare rifle (The .264WM) Need a GPS and fuel containers...... and ... and ...


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177341 - 18/03/11 04:02 PM


Sounds good, Where are you going ?

SA, NT, Qld or NSW ?


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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: 500Nitro]
      #177344 - 18/03/11 04:44 PM

Take the big banger, too, just in case you get a chance. You never know...

Have fun!

Also, an EPIRB or satphone are good in camel country. You can hire satphones.


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blacks
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Reged: 17/03/11
Posts: 83
Loc: South-East South Australia
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177345 - 18/03/11 04:46 PM

Quote:

Well it looks like a go'er for late June.

Dingos, Pigs and Brumbys are also on the agenda. I plan to be self sufficient and swag it from a mobile camp packed into my twin cab 4x4.

I've got a 9.3x62 load, spare rifle (The .264WM) Need a GPS and fuel containers...... and ... and ...




I've got a GPS and fuel containers....

Sounds great John, all the best with it mate, sounds like a real adventure! Camels are one I'd like to cross off the list one day too.

Cheers

blacks

--------------------
You won't shoot anything at home on the couch...


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Re: Camels [Re: blacks]
      #177493 - 21/03/11 11:39 AM

Late July is now the date.

I've ordered a GPS (Garmin GPSMAP 60Cx). I hope that will do the job. Does anyone have one of these ?

The area is far west Qld.. There maybe opportunities to re visit the property again. One of the local lads is a Jackaroo up there.


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tinker
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Posts: 4835
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Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #177506 - 21/03/11 04:45 PM

I've been thinking of getting some camels for our ranch.
Llamas are not too uncommon, and I hear they protect livestock from coyote.

I'd love to see a camel kick the shit out of a coyote!!





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
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Re: Camels [Re: tinker]
      #177508 - 21/03/11 05:05 PM

tinker,

When I was putting my self through university I used to cut firewood during winter break and sell it (for cash). I got access to a property which adjoined a national park which was basically gorge country full of wild dogs and some wild horses.

The feral dogs played havoc with the graziers sheep so he imported a llama who proved very effective in protecting the sheep. He was so effective he would often bail up farm workers and trap them inside their vehicles.

He was a big bastard, over 6' tall. His name, wait for it .... Osama Ben Llama. (I shit you not).


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gundog
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Reged: 16/10/10
Posts: 58
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #179257 - 17/04/11 11:43 AM

Tophet1, I don't know if you are into the sambar hunting or read about it a bit but if you have a look in Ken Pearce's book, "Walking Them Up", P89-90, there is an excerpt from a Ranger who shoots camels, brumbies & donkey's as part of his job. He uses his own personal rifles, 1 in 300WM & the other in 375H&H, because he doesn't rate the departmental 308 issue cal esp on running body shots.
In comparing the 300 to the 375, he says..

"The 375H&H is an entirely different story. I have used 270gn Win Power points & hand loads inc 235gn Speer semi spitzers & 285 Speer Grand Slams loaded to near max. The Win 270gners often have core separations, even on donkey's but the Speer 235's are invariably recovered on the opposite shoulder on donkey's, even with angling shots, with the core & jacket intact. The 285gn Grand Slams are great & generally exit, although I have recovered one from a brumby angling at about 200m & one from a shoulder shot camel at 100m, however, all the 375's kill emphatically".

Enough said.

Edited by gundog (17/04/11 01:14 PM)


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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Re: Camels [Re: gundog]
      #179259 - 17/04/11 12:16 PM

Thx gundog, I know SFA about Sambar unfortunately but that book has been quoted a few times so I will keep an eye open for it.

I have had to bring the trip forward to mid June (again). I've just come back in from the range where I have started prep and practise with the two rifles I'm taking and found you had resurected this post.

The Garman GPS has arrived and I now have to get topo maps as back up.

Rifle One : The 9.3x62 with 250 Nosler Accubonds is zeroed at 200yards and is 3" high at 100yards.

Rifle Two" My .264 Winchester Magnum shoots sub moa with the Woodleigh 140 PPSN and is essentially flat shooting to 200 yards. I am going out this afternoon to check drop at 300 yards and chrono the load. 66 grains of 2213sc from a 24" barrel.

Edit: .264WM 140 PPSN is 31" low at 300 yards. Right at the top of the bottom heav(ier) reticle post. Velocity 3,012 fps.

I was thinking of taking the 7x57 with 154 Hornady Interlock spitzers but there would be no margin for error so it stays home.


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gundog
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Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #179261 - 17/04/11 01:13 PM

tophet1..I have used the 375 Ruger with 235gn TSX's on sambar with complete success, all 1 shot kills & of the dozen or so I've shot with it, I've only recovered 1 projie. The 9.3 should be good on camels. A bloke I know uses the 9.3 on sambar with the 286gn..I think..TUG's. Fantastic performance & excellent penetration on sambar, so would be good on camels.

I've never had the opportunity on camels but would love to one day.


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264
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Reged: 15/02/11
Posts: 602
Loc: NT Australia
Re: Camels [Re: gundog]
      #179268 - 17/04/11 03:20 PM

Trophet1, ive cull shot them on foot and from vechiles. Used mainly .243 and 100 grainers, 308 and 150/180's. The best knock down calibres i have hunted them with have been the 300wm , 338 wm and the 375H&H. I prefer the 338 with 200-250 projectiles. Partitions work well. Donkeys and camels can carry shots .
I run a 264 wm and would have no problems considering it for camels, hope to hunt them later in the year with the 358win and 264wm .
They are great animal to bow hunt.
Take the lead animal out and they will mill around. Hope this helps Mick


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tophet1
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Re: Camels [Re: 264]
      #179283 - 17/04/11 09:03 PM

Mick,

I have high expectations of the 140 Woodleigh in the .264. The Woodleigh .308 165 PPSN performed perfectly for me in Africa and I'll be pushing the 140 with its higher SD faster.


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264
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Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #179284 - 17/04/11 09:20 PM

trophet1, look forward to hearing how they perform. Im running 125 partitions and 130 barnes TSX. Set it up for fallow and like the performance of both , settled on the partition as they are more accurate. Great on fallow, boars , dingo also taken small buff with them. Great calibre , pity it took me 25 years to get one. What is your 264wm . Mick

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eljefedouble
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Posts: 189
Loc: Vic, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: 264]
      #179537 - 21/04/11 01:42 AM

HI John,
so it finally happens.
Besides the factory projjies planned, are you casting in 9.3? Was under the impression you were going to...
That caliber gap? Maybe a 300Wea Mag will fit right in
Best
Asif

--------------------
"it dont mean a thing, if it aint got no zing"
"Toa bunduki mkubwa"


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darwinmauser
.300 member


Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #180024 - 26/04/11 08:12 PM

Quote:

Late July is now the date.

I've ordered a GPS (Garmin GPSMAP 60Cx). I hope that will do the job. Does anyone have one of these ?

The area is far west Qld.. There maybe opportunities to re visit the property again. One of the local lads is a Jackaroo up there.





Late July in the outback......... hope you've got a good swag mate.


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Ben
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: darwinmauser]
      #180025 - 26/04/11 08:27 PM

It is absolutely magic out there in winter. You can actually really enjoy a good fire and cuppa and hot meal and sleeping bag. I love that experience, as we don't get it up here much.

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: Ben]
      #180028 - 26/04/11 08:36 PM

Don't worry, I spent many weeks out west around Cobar in the early 80's during my enlistment. Being out there, living out of the back of my truck with no timetable or agenda is half the fun.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Camels [Re: tophet1]
      #180030 - 26/04/11 09:34 PM


I always reckon it is easier to get and stay warm than it is to get cold, hence colder weather is better. Just my HO.


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Camels [Re: 500Nitro]
      #180571 - 03/05/11 02:01 AM

I'm BACK!
A working mans rifle for camel is the 338Win using 300gn rn woodleighs..
I've never lost one using this calibre even out to ranges of 200 yards.
And let me tell you I've shot enough of them to know what works and what might.
Another thing,dont ever get caught out on a flat with a bull camel with attitude.
They are very capable of killing you.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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