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Orvar
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Reged: 31/12/08
Posts: 164
Loc: London, UK
Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle
      #176833 - 09/03/11 03:06 AM

Hi all,

I am very fortunate to have access to a driven boar area in France, where I shoot 6 - 10 times per year. The game is mostly boar (ranging from 30kg to a huge 176kg monster this year), but also have Red Stags and roedeer (which I don't like shooting driven, as the current 300WM makes a mess of them).

Anyway, Bonuses have been good this year (no, not a Banker) and am looking to have a fine old British DR in BPE to add to the fun and challenge.

Anyway, not having enough experience with these calibers (but loads with DR's in modern calivers, 9,3x74R and 8x57), would like your opinions and thoughts on what caliber to go looking for. Don't want a bruiser to handle, nor something that won't have the penetration to put the animals down in 1. (currently shoot a 300WM for this, and it does a treat).

So, which caliber would you see as ideal? and of course any other ideas / opinions would be most welcome!

Cheers

Dugong
BPE Caliber for Driven Boar
You may choose 2
.400 (one of the variants)
.450 / 400 BPE
.450 3.24" BPE
.500 BPE
.577 BPE
Other


Votes accepted from (09/03/11 03:05 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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AkMike
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: Orvar]
      #176834 - 09/03/11 03:19 AM

If that were the only shooting then I'd suggest 350 up to a 450 BPE range.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: AkMike]
      #176841 - 09/03/11 05:19 AM


450 and 500 BPE's are the easiest to find and easy to load for.

I am NOT a fan of the bottleneck 450/400 3 1/4" OR THE OTHER 450/400's in BPE - although you can find some lovely guns in 450/400 2 3/8th.

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tinker
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176846 - 09/03/11 08:41 AM

I like the 450 express.
Most of them (not all!) take .458 bullets - and there's a huge selection of them in weights likely to shoot to regulation *and cheap!*, and there's going to be numerous known-good load recipe formulas that you can likely get components for where you live.

Make sure that you can slug the bores and cast the chambers of whatever rifle you're looking at, and that the seller will allow inspection by a qualified gunsmith or gunmaker, to make sure you will be able to safely run whatever you get.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: tinker]
      #176848 - 09/03/11 09:00 AM

Dugong - I marked the .500 as with 450gr. Lyman bullets, it will surpass the .450 in penetration & killing power and yet not kick much more.

I've a friend with a .500 DR marked Made of Maharajha - etc, etc. in gold script on the barrels - been way over 30 years since I last saw & shot it and sad to say, I forget the maker and other particulars, except the load - the most important thing.

#515450 Lyman mould(Lee now makes it as well), cast in WW alloy, 125gr. 2F GOEX and 2 hard cards to take up the space. I do not remember how thick the cards were, or had to be. I shot both tubes into 3 1/2" at 100 yards, and single groups each barrel of 2" and 1 1/2". I seem to think it shot one tube over the other, meeting at 100 yards with that load.

Why .50 in my choice? I firmly believe that the smaller the diameter of the case in a 3 1/4" long case, the harder it is to get the ctg. to shoot accurately with either smokeless or black powder. Those were my findings from using .40 through .50 calibres in Sharps ctgs. of 3 1/4" length.

The trend would hold of course, the bigger, the easier, and .577BPE would be the ultimate pig killer and probably the easiest to get to shoot accurately. It would also be the easiest on meat, merely punching descent holes through.

I seem to recall one English Sport writing to Greener, or maybe it was "The Field" and stating he'd shot 27 animals with 28 shots, including Elephants at 100 yards. I might have those particulars wrong - it was a long time ago.- HA! (Greener - The Gun etc.)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #176851 - 09/03/11 12:29 PM

I picked the .450 BPE.

Have seen some nice rifles in the .450 BPE at reasonable prices, and hunting wise, the calibre would make a nice medium game rifle, and driven and brush hunting rifle for medium game. Something fun to shoot and hunt.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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500Nitro
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #176853 - 09/03/11 01:47 PM


Daryl

I find it hard to believe your comment " I firmly believe that the smaller the diameter of the case in a 3 1/4" long case, the harder it is to get the ctg. to shoot accurately with either smokeless or black powder. Those were my findings from using .40 through .50 calibres in Sharps ctgs. of 3 1/4" length."


As has been mentioned, 450 also has the advantages of using the more readily available 458 bullets.

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Orvar
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Reged: 31/12/08
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176861 - 09/03/11 07:15 PM

Thanks so much for your answers!

450's definitely seem to be the easiest to find, although there have been quite a few 500's around as well (I missed out on an amazing H&H from 1891... gutted).

Tinker: here you on the slugging the bores, and do have a gunsmith here in the UK ready to "inspect" whatever I find, before buying. BUT, not a specialist in this kind of thing. If anyone knows of someone in the South of the UK who would have good/great knowledge, would be very greatly appreciative of any names!

Daryl: I get your point, but not having any experience with the .577, won't the reciol be on the "hefty" side? Most of the shot are between 5 - 40 meters (although they are moving at quite a good clip...). I am mindful of reciol, to have a quick second shot and not completely lose sight-picture (they tend to run in groups of 3 - 10 animals, but quite packed together).

Thanks again!

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herrdoktor
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: Orvar]
      #176981 - 12/03/11 01:40 AM

Hello, Dugongberbulu:
I too like driven hunts of boars, in Spain and East Europe. I have a nice Belgian 450 BPE loaded with 350 grains Hornadys and Woodleighs and at 2100 fps I can assure it is more than enough for the task. At the present time I am experimenting with Cast Performance 405 grains very flat point lead bullets. At 2000 fps, the rifle regulates fairly well, and I am sure it will be a nice thumper on boars. Recoil is easily manageable, even in my ultralight 6,5 pounds double.
I think the .450 is a fantastic caliber, and usually it will take good and inexpensive .458 bullets.

Good luck

Antonio, Spain.



Edited by CptCurl (17/03/11 08:31 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176986 - 12/03/11 04:48 AM

500 Nitro - PM sent. I have no reason to lie.

Those were my findings.

It has to do with expansion ratios - the greater the expansion ratio, the easier it is to get a ctg. to shoot - this is fact.


Too - 'everyone' has a .450BPE - a .577 would be much more fun to hunt with.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Nitro
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #176987 - 12/03/11 04:53 AM


Marrakai has a 577 NfB built on a Greener action
- awesome gun on pigs, absolutely flattens them !!!

Only thing is the bloody gunsmith cut the barrels too short
by 1 - 2 inches.

.

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rigbymauser
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #176989 - 12/03/11 05:19 AM


I voted for the .577express. Pig busted!.

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bwanabobftw
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Reged: 29/12/04
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: herrdoktor]
      #176991 - 12/03/11 06:19 AM

Love your ".450 BPE" , looks nice and trim and lite !!!!

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kuduae
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #176994 - 12/03/11 08:54 AM

Don't have a photo of my DR with one of the numerous boar, so a roe doe has to do.

It is a Birmingham made .500-.450 Nr.1 BPE, sold by Robertson of Wick and shoots 350gr Hornadys at 1900fps. It works! Barrels shortened to 23" because of rusted-out muzzles and reregulated by me. Of course, when used only on classic short range boar drives, the scope is off.

Edited by CptCurl (17/03/11 08:31 PM)

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Orvar
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Reged: 31/12/08
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: kuduae]
      #176996 - 12/03/11 08:59 AM

Antonio: wow, proof is definitely in the eating (and sure hope that pig was tasty). You've worked up your load to 2100fps, if its not too much to ask, whats are the load parameters?

Daryl: we must all be nuts if "everyone has a 450" But, I get your point. As will be starting point for me though, ease of reloading will be important.

Kuduae: nice roe! Where are you getting your components as have been told its more difficult for us here in some parts of Europe, especially powder?

Now, all I have to do is find a solid base rifle here in the UK to start working with... only 6 months left til the season starts again!

Thanks again for all your replies and comments

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: Orvar]
      #177006 - 12/03/11 03:11 PM

Quote:

... but also have Red Stags and roedeer (which I don't like shooting driven, as the current 300WM makes a mess of them).

....

Cheers

Dugong



Gentlemen,

What about this factor? How much meat damage does a BPE / NfB .450, .500 or .577 etc do, to red deer and roe deer.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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herrdoktor
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #177013 - 12/03/11 05:01 PM

Hello, Dugong:

My load is Hornady or Woodleigh 350 grains bullet, 70 grains of Tubal 5000 (a french powder, available in England), CCI 250 primer. I use a 30 mm foam wad made of the green "rigid" foam used in the flower shops, it weights next to nothing. cut the wads with this device, made with a sharpened 500NE case and a "pusher" to get the wad out without breaking it.





The rifle shoots nicely, 2" at 50 yards.

Antonio

Edited by CptCurl (17/03/11 08:33 PM)

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Orvar
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: herrdoktor]
      #177014 - 12/03/11 05:19 PM

John: yeah, will probably not shoot running roe with this rifle either... but sometimes (a lot actually), if not pushed too hard, they'll stop / stand for a second to get their bearings... For the Red Deer it is a concern for me.

Antonio: great little tool you made there!

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500Nitro
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: Orvar]
      #177016 - 12/03/11 05:34 PM

Quote:

John: yeah, will probably not shoot running roe with For the Red Deer it is a concern for me.





Dugong

Why are you concerned about a 450 on Red Deer ?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: Orvar]
      #177018 - 12/03/11 06:04 PM

Quote:

John: yeah, will probably not shoot running roe with this rifle either... but sometimes (a lot actually), if not pushed too hard, they'll stop / stand for a second to get their bearings... For the Red Deer it is a concern for me.

Antonio: great little tool you made there!



I wouldn't be too worried about meat damage of a .450 BPE on red deer, as the bullet is quite slow but heavyish. Really not much different to a .45/70 type round.

However on a small roe deer, well easier damaged I think, due to its size.

I was wondering what other members thought too.

As for the .500, .577 etc, I don't know?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kuduae
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #177020 - 12/03/11 07:31 PM

Gentlemen, don't worry about a .450 bullet @ 1900 doing a lot of damage on roe. In fact, it is less damaging than most "standard" rifle cartridges like 7x57,30-06 or 8x57. The slow, heavy bullets don't meet enough resistance in our tiny deer to expand much. Only on heavier game like boar and red deer these bullets do expand more, especially if heavier bones are hit. For instance, in the roe deer photo I posted above, it is the exit hole that you see! Entrance was exactly opposite.

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grandveneur
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: Orvar]
      #177029 - 12/03/11 09:49 PM

If you are going to hunt with french sportsmans, please use in a DR a standart european caliber, maximum 9,3x74R !---- sinon le risque est grand de passer pour un rigolo ! ---- Bad start by french hunters ! If you are alone you can do what you want !

Edited by grandveneur (12/03/11 09:52 PM)

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grandveneur
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle *DELETED* [Re: Orvar]
      #177043 - 13/03/11 01:59 AM

Post deleted by grandveneur

Edited by grandveneur (13/03/11 02:07 AM)

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Orvar
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Re: Advice Sought: Driven Boar Rifle [Re: grandveneur]
      #177050 - 13/03/11 03:51 AM

John: was not worried, but is a concern in general... I like to get as much meat as I can out of it (which is sometimes difficult with driven game).

Grandveneur: yeah, normally would very much agree with you (my parents are French, so I can say it... ). In this case though, have been on the shoot for so long, they won't care a bit, if only the novelty factor... no worries. + if "everyone has a 450BPE", then what should we say about the 9,3x74R? Ubiquitous!

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