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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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lancaster
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8x50R soft points
      #174842 - 05/02/11 02:18 AM

I got some old DWM 8x50R hunting cartridges, something not very rare but also not so common.
copper plated steel case probably made in WW 2 with the 15,6gramm .223/.324 bullet



this original box is not mine but hopefully join the rest next time


from the 1936 DWM ammo list, they made a 10 gramm spitzer soft point and the 15,6gramm soft point bullet that shoot together with the original military round




--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (14/02/11 02:45 AM)

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rigbymauser
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #174858 - 05/02/11 05:02 AM


Lovely pick-up. I would love to have a Lee Speed sportingrifle in that caliber. Mantons & Co in Calcutta also called this caliber 500/320 Express.

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: rigbymauser]
      #174860 - 05/02/11 05:21 AM

and the sportsman in india today would be also very happy if they can have such old DWM ammo for hunting

I have an old Mannlicher Stutzen barrel in 8x50R and thinking about a simple oldstyle insert barrel for a 12 bore dobbelguns just for fun.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #182066 - 20/05/11 11:24 PM

now it becomes a crossover http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post129368,
get Kynoch 8x50R softpoints


posibble made for india and the 315 lee enfield magazine rifle, here on Mannlicher M 95 clips



303 service cartridge, 8x50 R Kynoch softpoint, 8x50R DWM softpoint, 8x50R service cartridge
notice that the Kynoch cartridge have a longer and spitzer bullet and is in oal close to the 303 round(lee Enfield magazin lenght?)
my M 95 is in the hands of the gunmaker now and I can not try if it fits into the Mannlicher or if the 2 mm more make a difference.


headstamp is Kynoch 8mm

Manton/calcutta catalog with the service cartridge and the Kynoch round


the original Mannlicher M95 comes around in the world. Italia capture alot when WW 1 ended it give it to native troops in italian somaliland.


many of them were capture again when commonwealth troops conquered Italian Somaliland in 1942/43. this rifles were given to rear and native troops in india and nepal and also in south africa to make lee enfield rifles free for front line use.
still looking for old pics showing this rifles there and wonder if they end in the hands of local sportsman when the war was over.
the stoke of such rifles have an AOI stamp

Africa Orientale Italiana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_East_Africa

Edited by CptCurl (23/06/11 10:24 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #186903 - 30/07/11 05:34 PM

again some interesting 8x50R ammo for sale and I think its a good idea to safe the pics as a reference

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3413263


Georg Roth softpoints, headstamp 19/1/18/GR
maybe sporting ammo load with WW 1 surplus brass

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3415935


this was the last hirtenberger ammo made with 12,7 g / 196 grs softpoint bullets around 1990 for some years


http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3412950

also Georg Roth made sporting ammo but with the rare hollow point bullet 19/1/03/GR

box have a "F. HARDER" stamp, maybe the gunmaker who sold it

the old kynoch ammo
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3385562





and
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3413241

very collectible item from Peterlongo/Innsbruck
8x59R cartridges and handwriten on the box "Mannlicher M 95 Bleigeschoß" - lead bullet




looks like a modification for the old-fashioned handloader and bullet caster who had wish to stay with lead bullets in his mannlicher. the short neck of the 8x50r will not hold a lead bullet very well and 8,5mm sound right for a 8,38mm barrel.
the neck on this cartridge looks like it could fit into a common 8x50R chamber so the lead bullet have to be of the heeled type.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (01/08/11 08:52 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #237406 - 03/11/13 01:44 AM

a good example who important it is to have not only very good pics of the things I sell in a net auction but also know what it is and named so other can find it. got it for a 1 euro a box because the seller had it as "8mm hunting ammo"




its a post WW 2 made sporting cartridge by Österreichische Jagdpatronenfabrik (austrian hunting cartridge factory) in Kramsach/Tirol. I dont know if they made it also with a softpoint but a FMJ was better than no ammo I guess and it was labeled as "hunting cartridges". btw,I have to look now for the softpoint load also!
Kramsach was a black powder mill since 1680 starting made hunting ammo after 1949 but I dont know how long. doubt this firm survive into the 1970s any information about this maker would be welcome.


headstamp is "ÖJP 1 8mm"



the box is labeled in german, english and french





1935 Bulgarian surplus, Kynoch, DWM, the new ÖJP and a handload made with a 9,3x53R and a 8x50R Lebel die set



this is another box seems to be made by the same firm that looks more military alike. could be that the "hunting cartridge" was just a trick for making ammo. something that many of the WW 2 victors dont like to see in the 1950s I believe.



the austrian police had the mannlicher M 95 up to the 1960s, here is austrian border police near the hungarian border while the hungarian revolution of 1956.



some weeks ago there was a Sellier&Bellot load for sale in another auction I miss


seems also like a post WW 2 box, the seller had mix the 8mm Mann.(8x50R) with 8,2M.Sch (8x56 MS)

what I look now are pics showing a box and the headstamp of the 315 india. if someone from india could help?



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (03/11/13 08:27 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #237436 - 03/11/13 08:34 PM

again my plan works, sharing pics will bring new pics back to you

the 1935 DWM catalog not only list the common 15,6 gramm softpoint but also a 10 gramm softpoint I did not get into my hands till now



the 15,6 gramm bullet


and this eems to the 10 gramm bullet with a very futuristic spitzer softpoint bullet


headstamped K N DWM N K 358C

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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joelblack
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #242483 - 16/02/14 06:31 AM

While BSA made some Lee Speeds in 8X50R, they also made these 1914s in 8X57 Mauser.



Irecently got this one along with 2 Lee Speeds while vacationing in Florida. Until I saw it, I thought BSA never really got around to making them.

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DarylS
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: joelblack]
      #242493 - 16/02/14 09:27 AM

P-14 Enfield chambered for 8mm? well that's a new one for me - sporterized military stock and all - same sling studs too - actually the stock shown is identical to the 1914 (yes) that I had stamped M30 Rem. in .30/06 (with a Type 17 .30/06 Enfield bolt). Unfortunately, mine did not have the leaf and ladder rear sight - or I would still have it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: DarylS]
      #242514 - 16/02/14 07:07 PM

" the action and woodwork is not new"

so its made by using surplus rifle's after WW 1?
why did they made new 8x57IS barrels when the 303 was a wide used sporting cartridge or did they only had actions and stocks left over? is there a problem with rimless cases in the P 14 action requiring some hours to make it work?

none the less very interesting sporting rifle I did not seen before

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #254991 - 10/10/14 11:50 PM

a hard to find Ladekonus M11 / Kapselschießeinrichtung for the Mannlicher M95
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5130193





this case was loaded with a big primer and a hollow base lead bullet for indoor target practise

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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chapmen
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #267958 - 14/07/15 02:31 AM



--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: chapmen]
      #267968 - 14/07/15 03:38 AM

the good old Old Western Scrounger ammo, probably made by using 7,62x54R brass
do you know the OWS ammo box for the 8x33 kurz?

here is the little blank called "kapsel" for the indoor shooting "Ladekonus" I show above





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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chapmen
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #267971 - 14/07/15 04:29 AM

Quote:


do you know the OWS ammo box for the 8x33 kurz?




no- have never seen one.

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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Caprivi
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: chapmen]
      #267973 - 14/07/15 05:33 AM

Thanks joel
That is very cool and a bit enlightening. Is it chambered in 8x57 or in 8x50R ??? Years back a friend had a BSA P-14 stamped very similarly ( 7.92mm ) that was chambered for the 8x50R. It was in a american replacement 1960's stock so no thought at the time that it may be "factory". We had always thought it was a .303 that had shot out and bored/chambered to x50R.......maybe not ???

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kuduae
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #267978 - 14/07/15 07:02 AM

Quote:

why did they made new 8x57IS barrels when the 303 was a wide used sporting cartridge



Same reason why they built the Lee-Speed in 8x50R Mannlicher aka .315 IOF: The .303 was outlawed for civilian use in India.

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: chapmen]
      #268033 - 15/07/15 03:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:


do you know the OWS ammo box for the 8x33 kurz?




no- have never seen one.



they had blacken it here to avaoid trouble in the post but you can probably see it






there were some other funny ammo boxes too


















"Dangerous Dave" Cumberland was an real character, dont know if he is still on earth. talk with him on the IWA were he had his stand together with Mr Huntington from RCBS over years.
well, time goes by also for me


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #376187 - 22/04/23 06:19 AM

there are two kynoch loads on egun for the 8x50R I had not seen before. beside of the well known long and "spitz" softpoint with a nickel plated bullet there is also kynoch FMJ and a softpoint more in the design of the original military bullet



wonder what some swedish components were





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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3DogMike
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Re: 8x50R soft points [Re: lancaster]
      #376193 - 22/04/23 10:59 AM

Dave Cumberland of the original Old Western Scrounger was a real character and had all kinds of esoteric "stuff" in his little catalog.
Long gone days and sorely missed…….
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

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