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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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CommandCar
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Restocking a Paradox
      #173279 - 17/12/10 11:44 AM

The stock on my Evans has had it. Broke through the wrist, just behind the tang, today. It's been on the way out due to oil damage, and I previously had the bad wood hogged out and epoxied.

I have a couple questions on restocking.

I'd like to hear who is recommended for this task?

How much should it cost?

The original dimensions are pretty close to correct for me, what if I ask for changes like more cast off, or different length stock? Will I need to reregulate?

Is there anything I should watch out for?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: CommandCar]
      #173309 - 18/12/10 03:55 AM

Infortunate happening. Sorry to hear of the break.

Are you supplying the wood?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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CommandCar
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Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: DarylS]
      #173310 - 18/12/10 04:08 AM

Daryl,

Thank you for your sympathies.

I had long ago realized that a new stock was in order. I am fortunate to have this to occur after sucessful ammunition development (aprox 600 rounds). Now at least, I have a baseline performance to try to duplicate with the new stock. Also, now I can justify the expense...


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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: CommandCar]
      #173313 - 18/12/10 05:31 AM

Do you have a photo or two of the gun? Evans made some very nice guns. How much original finish, engraving etc is on the gun?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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470evans
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Reged: 30/03/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: gatsby]
      #173315 - 18/12/10 06:22 AM

If you want the job done right call Paul Hodgins. He is expensive but worth every penney if you plan on keeping the gun. Paul stocked my Manton 400 and did an exceptional job.

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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: 470evans]
      #173319 - 18/12/10 09:03 AM

Quote:

If you want the job done right call Paul Hodgins. He is expensive but worth every penney if you plan on keeping the gun. Paul stocked my Manton 400 and did an exceptional job.




Expensive is putting it mildly. He charges $4,500.00 for a buttstock now and $3,000.00 for a splinter forend! And at least a year time wise. His prices are absurd, he must think he's still at the bench at H&H.

Commandcar: Try Steve Billeb he is the founder of the custom gun makers guild and is one hell of a stockmaker. His prices are very reasonable and you can have your gun back within 6-8 months done to proper English specs.

22 Vista View Lane, Cody, WY 82414 Telephone: (307)587-4278


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CommandCar
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Tragedy! [Re: gatsby]
      #173339 - 18/12/10 01:16 PM

Here are some photos.








Thanks for the leads.

Anyone have an opinion on adding 1/4-3/8" of cast on the new stock. Would that throw off the regulation?

Edited by CptCurl (20/12/10 11:31 AM)


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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Tragedy! [Re: CommandCar]
      #173340 - 18/12/10 01:48 PM

Your real concern on regulation is this:


As you've been developing those nice looking loads we see in that ammunition belt, it's quite possible that the wrist of that stock has been flexing more than a good and sound stock would.
Getting that gun re-stocked will very likely make the gun more rigid and less active through the wrist.
You might find that the load you have there may need to be adjusted in order to get the gun shooting properly again.

Would you need to have the gun re-regulated?
Maybe.
Judging by the looks of it, the energy and expense of a new stock and re-regulation would be worth it.

Sorry to see the wood's gone chooch on such a nice piece, but it seems that you saw it coming, so carry on and stay in the fight!







Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Tragedy! [Re: tinker]
      #173380 - 19/12/10 05:13 AM

I imagine you would be looking at around £5 to 7,000 here from a good (not London) maker and good figured walnut... At least you don't need the fore-end done. That helps

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: Tragedy! [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #173388 - 19/12/10 07:23 AM

Remember the kids story of the "Emperor’s New Cloths" when you see the prices some of these men are trying to charge.
Paying more doesn't necessarily mean you are getting more then you can get for less money.

There are 2 schools of thought for doing business.

The most common is the one put forth by P.T. Barnum;
He said it was “morally wrong to allow a fool to keep his money”.

The other is put forth by Jesus Christ:
We should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. We should all be our brother’s keeper.

Choose wisely


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CommandCar
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: Tragedy! [Re: szihn]
      #173398 - 19/12/10 09:07 AM

Amen

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Tragedy! [Re: szihn]
      #173403 - 19/12/10 09:24 AM

I bet you could get it back shooting with a repair job while you work some overtime to get it re-stocked.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Tragedy! [Re: bonanza]
      #173418 - 19/12/10 09:40 PM

Very true - I was thinking high end because it is an Evans. But outside those circles, a good stocker would probably charge £500 for a boxlock and 1,000 for a sidelock, plus wood. Of course the $ is also a bit weak at the moment against the £. What ballpark are you looking at in $ terms over there?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Tragedy! [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #173439 - 20/12/10 06:42 AM

Yes - I was thinking a good gun maker here would charge in the neighbourhood of $2,000 CDN + wood. I know my brother would charge about that and do a job as good as the original - if he was still making rifles for trade, that is.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Tragedy! [Re: DarylS]
      #173444 - 20/12/10 09:25 AM

Commandcar

How tall is that brass on the Paradox loads ?
Are the loads on the right on 16mm brass ?

Thanks

My condolences on the stock.

I had my WW Greener restocked here in MI for a very fair price and the job was excellent.
Under 1000 including wood.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Tragedy! [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #173446 - 20/12/10 09:36 AM

Quote:

I imagine you would be looking at around £5 to 7,000 here from a good (not London) maker and good figured walnut... At least you don't need the fore-end done. That helps




Overpriced by the mile!. As I have had a few gunprojects over the time, I have realized that most english gunmakers are simply overpriced.


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CommandCar
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Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: Tragedy! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #173455 - 20/12/10 11:55 AM

Nitro,

The brass on the loaded ball cartridges is 25mm (1").

The primed hulls are UEE straight wall plastic made by Cheddite, so internally, all brass heights are all the same - fiocchi hulls too.

New Cheddite paper hulls 12 and sometimes 20 ga. as well as the above plastics are available at http://www.grafs.com/. Ched paper hulls are also internally the same, but I believe there is either different roll crimp pressure, or slightly different wall thickness between the two. Plastic test loads regulated first for me. I took a break to do some hunting, shot a dandy buck, and you know where I am now...

Balistic products also stocks cheddite hulls.

The shot loads on the right are factory Gamebore paper w/ fiber wad. I did not measure them, but 5/8" sounds about right.


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Tragedy! [Re: CommandCar]
      #173476 - 20/12/10 07:30 PM

RigbyMauser - £500-1,000 for the work and £4-6K for top quality, well figured Turkish walnut? I haven't had it done, but where did you get the walnut and how much ballpark are you talking?

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Tragedy! [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #173576 - 22/12/10 02:56 AM

Quote:

RigbyMauser - £500-1,000 for the work and £4-6K for top quality, well figured Turkish walnut? I haven't had it done, but where did you get the walnut and how much ballpark are you talking?




Walnut...best quality for at least under half price, of what stated here.

http://www.dressels.com/id153.htm

That wood that is on the paradoxgun in questioning isn`t the most expensive wood either..Just look at Dresslers homepage, and I am sure something similar will match for about $1500...


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Tragedy! [Re: rigbymauser]
      #173578 - 22/12/10 04:47 AM

Plus shipping and duty to the UK, but I take your point!
This is what my estimate gets you http://www.mckaybrown.com/www.mckaybrown.com/Wood.html


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470evans
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Reged: 30/03/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: ]
      #173733 - 24/12/10 05:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

If you want the job done right call Paul Hodgins. He is expensive but worth every penney if you plan on keeping the gun. Paul stocked my Manton 400 and did an exceptional job.




Expensive is putting it mildly. He charges $4,500.00 for a buttstock now and $3,000.00 for a splinter forend! And at least a year time wise. His prices are absurd, he must think he's still at the bench at H&H.

Commandcar: Try Steve Billeb he is the founder of the custom gun makers guild and is one hell of a stockmaker. His prices are very reasonable and you can have your gun back within 6-8 months done to proper English specs.

22 Vista View Lane, Cody, WY 82414 Telephone: (307)587-4278




Since I need my Jeffery sidelock restocked I called and spoke with Steve Billeb this morning. He is a very nice guy but admitted he hasn't stocked any British doubles. We spoke at length about how important it is to get the correct style and he felt if he had an original stock to go off he felt he could do a good job. In my case there isn't and he suggested a few other stockers to consider.


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: 470evans]
      #173737 - 24/12/10 08:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If you want the job done right call Paul Hodgins. He is expensive but worth every penney if you plan on keeping the gun. Paul stocked my Manton 400 and did an exceptional job.




Expensive is putting it mildly. He charges $4,500.00 for a buttstock now and $3,000.00 for a splinter forend! And at least a year time wise. His prices are absurd, he must think he's still at the bench at H&H.

Commandcar: Try Steve Billeb he is the founder of the custom gun makers guild and is one hell of a stockmaker. His prices are very reasonable and you can have your gun back within 6-8 months done to proper English specs.

22 Vista View Lane, Cody, WY 82414 Telephone: (307)587-4278




Since I need my Jeffery sidelock restocked I called and spoke with Steve Billeb this morning. He is a very nice guy but admitted he hasn't stocked any British doubles. We spoke at length about how important it is to get the correct style and he felt if he had an original stock to go off he felt he could do a good job. In my case there isn't and he suggested a few other stockers to consider.




That's strange he would say that to you. Because he stocked my WW Greener 360 #2 and also did a Fraser boxlock for me that turned out great years ago. Sounds like perhaps he didn't want to take your project? Of course mine were boxlock guns like the Evans in question, I know its a much bigger task to do a sidelock which may have been his hesitation with your inquiry.


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470evans
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Reged: 30/03/05
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: ]
      #173739 - 24/12/10 09:48 AM

Maybe so, he said he does American doubles. I'm very particular and don't want to have any other jobs not done right. I'm still cleaning up a mess from a restock done on my Holland Paradox by a well known guy.

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CommandCar
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Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: 470evans]
      #186097 - 19/07/11 01:54 PM

Still in regulation!

Fired by the stocker, not done yet, getting the finishing touches.



lower left, upper right = 50 yrds

upper left and lower right - 100 yrds

Edited by CptCurl (19/07/11 08:26 PM)


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bwanabobftw
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Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 676
Loc: Texas
Re: Restocking a Paradox [Re: CommandCar]
      #186119 - 20/07/11 01:39 AM

Makes me want to get mine "up and going" even more !!!!!! Well done.
Robert


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