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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby?
      #173152 - 15/12/10 09:40 AM

If so, what are your thoughts? How'd you like 'em?

Would anybody NOT use them, and why?

I've had them highly-recommended to me by a very experienced shooter / hunter.

Cheers,

Ben

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marlin45
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Ben]
      #173164 - 15/12/10 01:31 PM

HiBen,
I thought you maybe interested in Woodleighs reply to my question of whether THEY had a preferance between 410 gr SN and 450gr SN for Northern Territory buffalo. Their reply appears below....

Unless you are a heavy bullet fan, there is no need for the 450gr.
The heavier bullet does increase penetration, but also kicks more.
It is really a personal choice. I would be happy with either bullet.
It is best to use a SN for first shot, and solids for follow up shots if necessary.
Regards,
Geoff McDonald.

Woodleigh Bullets
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC, 3579, Australia
Ph. 61 3 5457 2226
Fax. 61 3 5457 2339
Email zedfield@iinet.net.au
Web www.woodleighbullets.com.au


Have got some 450 gr on order.....just to see how they go. Do you have any load data in 416 Rigby?
Hope this helps.

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: marlin45]
      #173165 - 15/12/10 02:05 PM

Thanks for that. It seems fair enough. But I wonder about the next level of big game: elephant? Would the extra 40 grains be beneficial? I suppose the .416 Rigby has knocked over many elephant using standard 400 grain solids. I don't have any data for the 450 grain bullets, sorry, only for the 410 grain bullets. But Woodleigh will send you their recommendations if you tell them what powder you wish to try.

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Cinghiale
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Reged: 15/04/08
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Ben]
      #173166 - 15/12/10 02:40 PM

PM sent mate

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5054
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: marlin45]
      #173359 - 18/12/10 10:52 PM

I am not at home so can not give you exact figures. In my CZ550 I started with 2 grains less powder-AR 2213SC- then the listed start load for a 410 grain pill. I can not remember what load I ended up with as only had a few to try. Thanks Tophet 1.

Cheers

Greg

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ozhunter
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Rule303]
      #173364 - 19/12/10 01:24 AM

Although I like heavy for calibre bullets in rounds like the 404, I don't think it would be necessary in the 416 with its already high sectional density.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: ozhunter]
      #173391 - 19/12/10 07:54 AM

RULE303's Data. Don't worry Greg I'll post back the remaining 450's mate. I'd hate to see you under guned.

AR2213SC (AKA Hodgdon H4831) 106Grains behind a 410 grain Bertram SP 2460fps

AR2213SC 104 Grains behind a 410grain Woodleigh 410 Solid 2480fps

AR2209 (AKA Hodgdon H414/H4350) 98 Grains behind 410 Bertram SP 2450fps

AR2209 90Grains behind 450Grain Woodleigh RNSP 2250fps

The 450 hit 2 inches lower at 50mts all the rest were in the same group.
With the 450 grain pills I am working without reloading data but I can still go higher in velocity going by the case's and extraction but why bother

Edited by tophet1 (19/12/10 07:57 AM)

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Rule303
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: tophet1]
      #173459 - 20/12/10 01:50 PM

Thanks John,(for the loading info) Not sure I need the extra recoil of the 450's:-)

Relying on memory is not a good thing with hand loading.

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Paul
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Rule303]
      #173495 - 21/12/10 12:56 AM

Can't be sure but I reckon the felt recoil might be less if the velocity is dropped when using the 450s. That is certainly my experience with shooting 300 grainers in the 338 at lower speeds than the 250s.

Also, my .450/.400 seems to kick a lot less than the 338, despite a much heavier slug, though the energy and rifle weights are nearly the same.

Shooting a lighter bullet in a double should give less recoil, of course, because then the velocity tends to be kept down to help regulation.

Edited by Paul (21/12/10 12:58 AM)

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Rule303
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Paul]
      #173604 - 22/12/10 01:38 PM

Let me assure all, that my shoulder can tell the difference between the 400 grainers and the 450s. The 450 feel about the same as the Woodleigh 410 grain solids. I am getting towards the upper end of my recoil tolerance here, so I may well be more susceptible to noticing small increases in felt recoil.

Cheers

Greg

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mauserand9mm
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Rule303]
      #173628 - 22/12/10 10:15 PM

Interesting point there Rule303 - I could never tell the difference between any projectile weight in 8mm Mauser or 30/06 while others could. Even from 220gn to 350gn in the 375H&H I can't feel a difference. However, I can tell the difference between 400gn and 500gn in my 458WM - I'm not fond of firing too many 500gns off the bench.

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #173675 - 23/12/10 10:57 AM

Thanks, fellows.

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zephyr
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Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 51
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Ben]
      #174659 - 02/02/11 05:10 AM

Check out Norma's new catalogue All of there PH series uses heavy bullets per caliber .416 Rigby 450 grn Woodliegh at 2150fps

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: zephyr]
      #174670 - 02/02/11 07:56 AM

problem I am told is that the 350 grainers in .375 flanged in doubles are keyholing in some rifles, watch this space best, Mike

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Rule303
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Ben]
      #174677 - 02/02/11 10:19 AM

Ben my loads to date with the 450grain Woodleighs in 416.

90 grains of AR2209 2250fps
93 " AR2209 2310fps

103grains of AR2213sc 2370fps

As to one of your original questions about would I use them, Yes and No. Hows that for a bet each way. OK what I am thinking is this. If I was going after just DG-not cats- I would as long as I could get them shooting to the same POI as the Woodliegh solids or Hydrostatics. Yet to check this out. I would think that a 450grain 416 pill at 2300+ fps could be as an effective stopper as a 500grain 458 at 2100fps. Just s thought. Those with some experience in this area might like to let us know their views on this.

However if I was going after DG and plains game I would stay with the 410 grain pills as the shoot to the same point as the 400 grain Hydrostatics and I could use the 400 RNSP Woodleighs on plains game out to 300mts if I had to.

Yet to have a play with the 340 Woodleigh's to see how they group and where they land compared to the Hydros and 410RN.

Cheers

Greg

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Rule303]
      #174726 - 02/02/11 07:02 PM

What does key-holing mean, Mike?

Cheers for the info, Greg.

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Rule303
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Ben]
      #174732 - 02/02/11 08:13 PM

Ben I take key-holing to mean that the projectile has not stabilised and turns side on at some point. If I am wrong I hope somebody will let us know.

Cheers

Greg.

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tophet1
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Rule303]
      #174736 - 02/02/11 08:45 PM

Nope, spot on Greg. To me it means going through the target sideways and 'on paper' leaving a shape like an old fashioned key hole. (Due to lack of velocity and/or stabilisation of the projectile by too slow a twist in the rifling).

Of course it could mean somthing different in the Northern hemisphere. (stir).

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: tophet1]
      #174737 - 02/02/11 09:00 PM

I found a solid from the .450/.400 3" just sticking-out the off-side of a scrub bull's chest, and it was the back end that was sticking-out first! I imagine that that is most-likely a different situation, probably having been knocked off course by a bone? The other solids melted through some big boys just fine.

My mate Tony has achieved really good things with his CZ .375 H. & H. Mag. and 350 grain Woodleighs. It'll be interesting to see what other fellows find with these heavy-for-calibre bullets.

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Ben]
      #174742 - 02/02/11 10:49 PM

Ben, exactly as said above, bullet hits target sideways on, must be rate of twist factor I think, it didnīt happen when I fired a few rounds through mine at 100 yds BUT didnīt have time to test closer or further so canīt say, best, Mike

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Freeloader123
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Reged: 23/07/10
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Loc: Dallas, Texas
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: marlin45]
      #175654 - 16/02/11 10:34 PM

Quote:

HiBen,
I thought you maybe interested in Woodleighs reply to my question of whether THEY had a preferance between 410 gr SN and 450gr SN for Northern Territory buffalo. Their reply appears below....

Unless you are a heavy bullet fan, there is no need for the 450gr.
The heavier bullet does increase penetration, but also kicks more.
It is really a personal choice. I would be happy with either bullet.
It is best to use a SN for first shot, and solids for follow up shots if necessary.
Regards,
Geoff McDonald.

Woodleigh Bullets
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC, 3579, Australia
Ph. 61 3 5457 2226
Fax. 61 3 5457 2339
Email zedfield@iinet.net.au
Web www.woodleighbullets.com.au


Have got some 450 gr on order.....just to see how they go. Do you have any load data in 416 Rigby?
Hope this helps.



Does the heavier bullet kill big critters deader than the 410-400 grain bullet?

I'd be a huge hypocrite if I pretended to be something other than a heavy bullet fan. As I sit here drinking my breakfast coffee I find myself contemplating two boxes of 320 grain cast lead bullets that need to be stuffed into my .44 Mag.

But on the other hand I'm a big fan of one rifle, one load.

Is the 450 grain bullet so much more of a killer I should mess up my system?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26975
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Freeloader123]
      #175664 - 17/02/11 03:31 AM

There are many different 'levels' of instability. Turning in the air is easy to see, but barely stable in the air can be very accurate at close range - to 200yards. Just ask BR shooters who use barely stable bullets to print tiny groups.

Trouble with barely stable bullets is they don't travel in a straight line inside the game - what started off as a rear to front sot, might turn out the side of the leg just after impact, or turn on a rib on a broadside shot. Barely unstble in flight, is totally unstable after hitting. The bullet must be completely stable to maintain straight-line tracking.

If there is any doubt, use the bullet weight and length that made the gun famous.

I-to like heavy for diameter bullets - but I also like the bullet to travel in a straight line after impact-I don't care what it hits, I want a straight line. I've never had trouble with proper weight and length bullets.

This goes for all guns, including ML's.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Nitro
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Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Freeloader123]
      #175668 - 17/02/11 04:10 AM

Quote:


Does the heavier bullet kill big critters deader than the 410-400 grain bullet?

I'd be a huge hypocrite if I pretended to be something other than a heavy bullet fan. As I sit here drinking my breakfast coffee I find myself contemplating two boxes of 320 grain cast lead bullets that need to be stuffed into my .44 Mag.

But on the other hand I'm a big fan of one rifle, one load.

Is the 450 grain bullet so much more of a killer I should mess up my system?




In answer to your first question, No.

I am a heavy for calibre bullet fan and if in doubt I go for the heavier bullet. but 400gns out of a 416 is plenty for NT Buff. if you hit it in the right spot, they all kill.

You might see a difference on an end to end shot up the arse but in reality, as Geoff says, use a Solid for 2 or 3.

If I need an end to end shot on a going away, I take out the hip and that stops them anyway.

No need for the extra recoil.

Just my HO.

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Freeloader123
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Reged: 23/07/10
Posts: 86
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #175778 - 19/02/11 07:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Does the heavier bullet kill big critters deader than the 410-400 grain bullet?

I'd be a huge hypocrite if I pretended to be something other than a heavy bullet fan. As I sit here drinking my breakfast coffee I find myself contemplating two boxes of 320 grain cast lead bullets that need to be stuffed into my .44 Mag.

But on the other hand I'm a big fan of one rifle, one load.

Is the 450 grain bullet so much more of a killer I should mess up my system?




In answer to your first question, No.

I am a heavy for calibre bullet fan and if in doubt I go for the heavier bullet. but 400gns out of a 416 is plenty for NT Buff. if you hit it in the right spot, they all kill.

You might see a difference on an end to end shot up the arse but in reality, as Geoff says, use a Solid for 2 or 3.

If I need an end to end shot on a going away, I take out the hip and that stops them anyway.

No need for the extra recoil.

Just my HO.



My HO, too.

My attitude is after a certain point if I need a heavier bullet, I probably need a bigger hole to shoot it from.

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marlin45
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Has anybody been using the 450 grain bullets for .416 Rigby? [Re: Freeloader123]
      #194237 - 20/11/11 08:50 PM

Just wondered if any one else noticed that Woodleigh have increased their reccomended impact velocity for their 450 grain rnsn from 2200 fps max to now 2400 fps max. Giving them this velocity rating would increase the 416 Rigby/Weatherby's potential with this projectile.

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