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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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DarylS
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #172142 - 27/11/10 04:14 AM

Quote:

A fellow shooter at Dalby has a 338-06 with a Douglas barrel which is a really slow barrel, he has trouble getting to the 3000 ft lb limit for Group 1, mine has a Lilja barrel and gets a lot higher velocities, and Fatboy has one with a MADDCO barrel that seems quite a deal faster again. (Although his is built on a pipe gun!)

All very interesting.

Regards,
David.



Now that seems really "slow".

Is that 3,000fpe required at 100 yards or meters - not the muzzle?

The reason I ask, is that my little weak actioned 9.3x57, a M94/96 Husky, gets over 3,000fpe at easily less than 50,000psi (.0005" case web expansion from sized) Even the little 232gr. & moderate load with 285gr. almost makes 3,100fpe.

2,350fps with a 250gr. will make 3,066fpe, same fpe as a 285gr. at 2,200fps or 232gr. at 2,450fps.

My 'slow' by accurate .30/06 with 24" bl., which was a Model 30 Remington ie: sporter P-14 with P-17 bolt and new barrel, was a full 150fps slower than any load in Speer's manual at maximum pressures. I re-chambered it to .300 Winchester mag, hoping to get .300 H&H ballistics from the 'slow' barrel, only to find it turned into a quite fast barrel that would no longer shoot 180gr. bullets, but loved 165's. The FailSafes ran 3/4" at 3,265fps with 75.0gr. IMR4831, while the same load with Nosler Partitions ran 1/2" to 3/4" at 3,365fps. I used Hodgdon data, starting low and worked to a useable max.
Because it was quite accurate before the re-chamber, I can not understand the difference re-chambering made.

This has little or nothign to do with the .416 Taylor, but might explain something about slow and fast barrels, maybe not. They are a world unto their own.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hunter_angler
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Reged: 24/03/10
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #172144 - 27/11/10 06:14 AM

Quote:



like a bastard son of a 1895 (which is what they are anyway )



Mr. Deer:

as you are probably aware there are other Leverites now throating the barrels of their Winny 95s and loading .405 WIN with 400 grain bullets to near .450/400 ballistics. Or alternatively necking the .30-06 case up to .411 Hawk.

Not quite the oomph of the .416 Taylor, but old school options for a dangerous game levergun. And the side benefit is you will feel like Teddy Roosevelt on safari...

--------------------
old school rimmy

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450_Ackley
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: hunter_angler]
      #172145 - 27/11/10 08:20 AM

Daryl,
That's 3000 ft/lb at the muzzle. One of the events we shoot requires a minimum of 0.330" bullet diameter, min of 165 grain bullet weight and a minimum of 3000 ft/lb at the muzzle.
The Douglas barreled rifle in question is a LH Rem 700, the owner reckons he can only get near the ME limit with 275 grain Speer's and a compressed load of "X" powder.
Yet Fatboy and myself can get easily over the limit without trying.
On a real sidetrack to the original post, the 338 Federal (with handloads) is really struggling as well.

I suppose all of this is what keeps all of us buying tins of powder and different packets of bullets.

David

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mauserand9mm
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #172149 - 27/11/10 10:55 AM

450_Ackley,

Actually I think the minimum for Group 1 is 2900 ft/lb.

By the way, have you seen any photos from the State Titles up at Gladstone? I was only there on the Saturday (I was on position 9 I think, and didn't do so well - shooting 8 shots on someone elses target during one event didn't help either).

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szihn
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #172150 - 27/11/10 11:31 AM

Please explane for us here in the USA what "group #1 and Group #2" are.

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450_Ackley
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: szihn]
      #172165 - 27/11/10 07:31 PM

Mauser and 9mm,
Yep, I stand corrected, you are right, the old limit a few years ago was indeed 3000 ft lb, it's now 2900, If I remember correctly, they changed it because there was a calibre that people were shooting, but loading the crap out of it to make the limit, not safe, so they dropped it 100 ft/lb.
Greg sent through the results spreadsheet, but I haven't seen any photos yet, other than the ones Kayleen took.
I've you've got some photos, please start a post and put them on.
I was on position number 3 at Gladstone, but I suppose you have worked that out by now.

szihn, We shoot target events over here in the Big Game Rifle Club. The groups relate to power factors, bore diameters etc.
Very briefly -
Group 1 Nitro Express, min 0.330" bore dia, min 165 grn bullet weight, min 2900 ft/lb muzzle energy. Common calibres include 338-06, 9.3 x 62, 35 Whelen, 375 H&H.

Group 2 Nitro Express, min 0.400" bore dia, min 400 grn bullet weight, min 3900 ft/lb muzzle energy. Common calibres include 458 win Mag, 458 Lott, 404 Jeffery, 416 Taylor and of course the superb 450 Ackley Mag!!

Group 3 Nitro Express, min 0.485" bore dia, min 525 grn bullet weight, min 5300 ft/lb muzzle energy. Common calibres include 500 Jeffery, 500 Nitro 3" and sometimes 505 Gibbs, 500 A-Square.

We have a lot of other events to cater for pretty much every calibre you can think of, except rimfires.

Regards,
David.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: szihn]
      #172168 - 27/11/10 11:04 PM

Quote:

Please explane for us here in the USA what "group #1 and Group #2" are.



Steve,

Here is a link to the Big Game Rifle Club competition rules here on NE.com, which will lend more explanation:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=16543

BTW, you can become an international member of the BGRC if you are interested. You may find it a bit difficult to travel to the shooting events, but the club has a provision for submitting your targets by mail if you want to join the competition.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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szihn
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: CptCurl]
      #172174 - 28/11/10 02:06 AM

Thanks CptCurl, that link explanes it all very well.

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DarylS
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: szihn]
      #172192 - 28/11/10 05:54 AM

David - an interesting grouping of categories for sure. Now, that contest would be something to watch, let alone participate in.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: DarylS]
      #172196 - 28/11/10 06:36 AM

Daryl,
It sure is interesting. The State shoots run for 2 days, where we would end up shooting about 12-13 events, by the end of the second day, it's starting to pay a toll. And of course Group 3 is always last, just to make it fun.

David.

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DarylS
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #172197 - 28/11/10 07:25 AM

I couldn't even compete in group 2 at the start, let alone group 3 at the end of it all. WOW!

My little Husky 9.3 would work in group 1 though, quite easily.

If it wasn't for bullet diameter & weight, the .375/06IMP would make group 2. It isn't a lot of fun for me to shoot, either - not any more, that is.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: szihn]
      #172216 - 28/11/10 11:30 AM

Steve,

They have a US match in Lodi WI twice a year. As you know, I'm in the process of moving out of Chicago, but this is a great match. If you're interested in attending one of the two days (one is in July and the other in October) next year, maybe we could plan to drive there. I know that Ka'imiloa and Mrs Ka'imiloa are planning to go sometime - you'll like the crowd. Some great people there and Ernie and Gerri Stallman of Badger Barrels are the organizers. I'd like to take my little girl along and slowly get her interested in shooting, and later in hunting.

Good hunting, my friend!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Con
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Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: How popular is the 416 Taylor? (MD) [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #172434 - 01/12/10 05:59 AM

Quote:

Apparently the makers CM barrels are not lapped, whereas the stainless ones are, which would make me think that the stainless barrel is very slightly larger and smoother, allowing a greater velocity.



David,
Have you slugged the barrels for size ... slightly larger may not be so slightly. There are two local manufacturers prone to making the odd undersized barrel.
Cheers...
Con

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