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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Trex
.224 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: North Texas, USA
Need Advice on Gun Purchase
      #17161 - 25/07/04 01:01 PM

Fellows,

I was at a friends house today and he is in poor health. Needless to say I was quite taken back when he brought out a brand new - never been fired - Winchester Custom Shop rifle in one calibre that I haven't yet collected - the venerable 470 Capstick. He bought it for around $3100 and wanted to sell it to me for $1100 cash. What is your opinion of the deal? I didn't want to take advantage of him but at his age (75) he says that he will never go to Africa to hunt and wants me to have the gun. Any thoughts on calibre and situation would be appreciated.

Cheers
Trex

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Hauptjäger
.275 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: Trex]
      #17166 - 25/07/04 03:46 PM

My fiend you are in a tough spot. I know the feeling (not with a gun however), your dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. As far as the cartridge goes, if don’t have one and you think that you may use it get the gun. However as for the price, you are looking at the steel of the century. Now what to do? It sound link you friend must really value and respect you to offer such a “gift” IMHO buy the gun and if you can don’t feel right about the price, and can give him more then do so. It seems that from what you say he does want you to have and use the rifle. Just my .02’s

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: Trex]
      #17193 - 26/07/04 06:05 AM

The 470 Capstick is either necked up from 338 WM brass, cut down 375 brass or necked down 458 WM brass. I believe Art Alphin first came out with the wildcat round so the the 475 NE bullets can be used in a bolt action without the expense of buying the double rifle. It was, of course, named for Peter H. Capstick and they had a chance to test it out on safari and found it to be a great killer. What you have is a collector's item as there were very, very few factory rifles so chambered. Go ahead and buy it and squander the kids' inheritance. I believe GeorgeS has one and you could PM him about his. As my CRS doesn't seem to affect my memory too much, I could be off by a bit but I do stand by A. Alphin wildcatting it way back when.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

Edited by 475Guy (26/07/04 06:15 AM)

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buckeyeshooter
.275 member


Reged: 04/02/04
Posts: 54
Loc: ohio, USA
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: Trex]
      #17196 - 26/07/04 07:17 AM

Trex,
You mentioned the Rifle was from the Winchester Custom Shop, do you know which custom it is?
The Custom Safari Express (retails for $3043.00) is offered in .470 Capstick currently and was first produced in that chambering in 2001.
The Custom African Express(retails for $4572.00) was chambered in .470 Capstick in 1999 and 2000 only. I ordered a Custom African Express in 1999 when first announced and it took 10 months to get the gun done. The gun is truely art and I was told that there were less than a dozen African Express' made in .470. By the way-- the African Express was offered in either stainless or blued versions-- I have seen 1 other African Express in .470 - it was stainless. Mine is the only blued version I have ever seen.

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Ingwe
.275 member


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Texas
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: buckeyeshooter]
      #17204 - 26/07/04 12:20 PM

Trex, Hauptjager is absolutely right. For him to offer you that rifle at that price, trust me, he really WANTS for that rifle to go to you. I cannot envision anyone offering a real gem like that to someone for that price unless they just really wanted for that person to have that item. If it were me, I would buy it without further adoo, and treasure it the rest of my life in honor of a very close friend. Do not feel bad and do not feel like you are taking advantage of him. I f he is the kind of friend to you that I think he is, then the money is not what is important to him. I think that he just wants to see the rifle go to you, and the biggest thing that you could do for him is to allow him to give it to you. He would maybe even actually prefer to simply give it to you straight up, but is worried that you would feel bad about that, and so he is offering it to you at that token price. He really wants to do something nice for you, and you would be doing him a disservice if you did not permit him that joy. The act of giving is itself a gift, but it will only work if there is someone who is willing to receive. Do the man a favor and grant him this wish. What is going on here is something that means a lot to him, and it goes way beyond ballistic charts and cartridge comparisons.

--------------------

_________________________________________________

Learn from other people's mistakes - you can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: Ingwe]
      #17209 - 26/07/04 01:21 PM

475 Guy,

I have always been under the impression that the .470 Capstick was a full length 375 case blown out straight to 475 caliber...even the balistics tend to varify this, correct me if I'm mistaken??????????

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Ingwe
.275 member


Reged: 08/07/04
Posts: 70
Loc: Texas
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: atkinson6]
      #17213 - 26/07/04 01:38 PM

I think Ray is right.
Here is a quote from ArmeFrance.com:

". 470 Capstick - This cartridge was designed by LTC Arthur B. Alphin and named alter the famous author, Peter Capstick lt delivers the maximum killing power possible from the H&H belted headsize while retaining the greater magazine capacity of the H&H headsize over the Weatherby or Rigby headsize. lt delivers 500 grain bullets at 2400 feet per second. This gives it good ballistics on paper. However, its greater diameter bullets deliver distinctly more shock than any of the .458's or .460's. lt definitely kills better than its paper figures indicate. lt is an excellent cartridge for heavy game out to 200 yards and dangerous game at close ranges. lts trajectory is also flat enough that shots can be placed un medium game at ranges up tu 250 yards. This cartridge, when used in an A-Square rifle, is still within the recoil threshold of the occasional hunter. Despite its lesser energy figures, the 470 Capstick's greater shock transmission (from the bigger bullets), lower recoil, and greater magazine capacity make it a preferred choice over the .460 Weatherby. For the man who wants a heavy rifle in order to round out his battery, or to complement a .338,.375, or similar cartddge, the 470 Capstick is near ideal."



--------------------

_________________________________________________

Learn from other people's mistakes - you can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

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475Guy
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: atkinson6]
      #17226 - 26/07/04 09:56 PM

Yo ol' cowboy, like I said, I could be a bit off as to some stuff. I was trying to remember off the top and failed miserably. Next time, I'll use my reference material before I shoot off a reply. I stand corrected.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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Trex
.224 member


Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: North Texas, USA
Re: Need Advice on Gun Purchase [Re: Trex]
      #17238 - 27/07/04 03:02 AM

Fellows,

Your replys have been very moving! I say this from the bottom of my heart. I mean it when I say I have agnoized over this decision for quite sometime. You fellows are my sounding board and I really appreciate your wisdom. My friend went in for open heart surgery today (26 July 2004) and I will be visiting him some this week. Nedless to say I will not be speaking about the gun unless he brings it up. I have decided that when he does I will offer him what it is worth. Then it will be up to him to either accept the price or gently know that he will not take any more money than he has asked for. For what it is worth, it is stainless (but subdued) and custom wood. It is the Custom Safari Express.

Again thanks to all
Trex

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