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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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Alberta
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Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
Loc: Canada
9.3 TUG 296g bullet
      #171281 - 11/11/10 08:36 AM

I just picked up a few boxes of 9.3X64 Brenneke ammo loaded with the 296g TUG bullet. I have seen the description of the TUG bullet before and thought it should do well. It is basically a soft lead front with harder lead rear type set up like a Speer Grand Slam.

I was wondering if anyone has experience with this bullet on game and how the penetration and expansion looked. I normally use this rifle for moose and black bear with the 286g partition and it works well.

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DarylS
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: Alberta]
      #171289 - 11/11/10 10:19 AM

I have no results, but buddy Keith gave me a box of them, so I loaded up my 300gr. load (45.0gr.H4895) in the 9.3x57 and the 9.3mm TUG's.

I fired 2 shots to test them. The poi was 1 1/4" right of center and 1/2" high of zero. The 270gr. Speers, at 2,300fps strike 1" above the TUG's and 1 1/4" left (centered vertically & 2" high)) the 2 shots struck the paper, cutting perfect holes due to the wad-cutter ring and were only 3/8" apart vertically.

I used an sitting elbow rest, forend hold with the back of my hand resting on my folded up gun case. I'd forgotten my bench-rest when going to the range to check zero's.

I'm sure these are the TUG's - sharp ring, semipointed tip and V tail? Or are they TIG's? 296gr. or 293gr.? Oops, maybe I've not got the right bullet for this thread. If so, please advise and I'll delete it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: DarylS]
      #171290 - 11/11/10 10:27 AM

I have three boxes of 296 grain Tugs but haven't tried them yet.
They look cool though.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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Alberta
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Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 66
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: FATBOY404]
      #171301 - 11/11/10 01:34 PM

Oops they are 293g not 296

Daryl you are correct, and you may possibly have the TUG. I just looked on the Brenneke website and found they have three 9.3 bullets. The silver jacked 293 TUG, a copper jacketed 247 TOG and a green coloured pure copper 225g TAG



I am not sure how well they would do at the lower velocities out of your x57 due to the steel jacket. I see the bullet is loaded in the x74 ammo so maybe that steel jacket is very thin. I don't know.

Edited by Alberta (11/11/10 02:21 PM)

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pablo_mauser_66
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Reged: 01/03/07
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: Alberta]
      #171303 - 11/11/10 02:19 PM

I had a 2 boxes TUG's which I loaded up for my 9.3x62 2 years ago, accuarcy was awesome. 3 shot groups was an inch with a 4x pecar. I shot 30 odd donkeys and horse with them out to 250m and no projectiles were recovered. They punched thru side on shots and exit wounds were lovely inch hole. My brother used the last of the ammo last Sept and cleaned up 50 buff in a day and reckoned they were awesome, mind you he reckon Highland ammo is pretty good !!!!

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ozhunter
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: pablo_mauser_66]
      #171307 - 11/11/10 04:49 PM

Have used them in 9.3x62 on game like Eland.
They work fine on game up to Eland and Moose and should work well on Bear but would prefer stronger bullets like Swift A Frames and North Forks for Buffalo.

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 745
Loc: Slovenia
Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: Alberta]
      #171309 - 11/11/10 06:22 PM

Alberta, I have used those in 62 and 74R for 10 years or so. They are just plain great at 62 and even better at 74R velocities. You can always expect exits at broad shots on elk size animals and full length penetration without exits on frontal shots. No damage on smaller animals like roe. And IMO one of the best bullets when shooting through obsticles (regarding keeping straight line)...

Ganyana from Zim, has a straight 38 Cape Buffalo 1 shot kills with TUGs in 62, tho he claims there are better Buff bullets around these days he wouldn't mind using them still.

Have in mind those all apply to 62 and 74R velocities - things may be different with 64.

P.S. Here is the only one I have managed to get so far - "Texas" heart shot on Impala - entry on hip, bullet was found in the windpipe:





Edited by CptCurl (13/11/10 11:24 PM)

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Alberta
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Reged: 03/12/07
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Loc: Canada
Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: 93mouse]
      #171331 - 12/11/10 02:38 AM

Wow, lots of game experience here with this bullet. I had guessed NE forums would be right place to ask this question. Thanks for the recovered bullet picture mouse. Looking at that bullet I would guess the rear section to be quite hard. Looks like the TUG's "pointy" shape of the hard lead section works as advertised and causes the softer lead to break away reducing frontal area and increasing penetration. The jacket looks to be quite stiff (for the velocity) as well.

My Brenneke only has a 22" BBL on it, this brings the muzzle velocity down a little bit, my hand loads are only pushing a 286g partition at 2500fps. I would guess the velocity I get with these factory loads would only be a little better than say a 24" BBL x62 Once they show up in the mail I will chronograph them and report back.

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DarylS
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: Alberta]
      #171343 - 12/11/10 06:29 AM

YUP - that's the bullet. I guess I'll pull the other 18 rounds and save them for the 9.3x62. My 9.3x57 would be getting 2,200fps tops - maybe 2,175fps - which is what it does with 300gr.

As well, I'll run them at about 2,300fps to 2,350fps from the 22" 9.3x62 - a moderate load only. That should do the trick for moose, elk and bear - if I ever get the notion of shooting another of those - doubt it.

I googled 9.3TUG and got some interesting results - been discussed quite a bit right here at nitroexpress - several threads including this one and in concert with the 9.3x64 and 9.3x74. Seems factory chrono'd 2,288 out of a 9.3x74- supposed to be in the 2,270's. That will be a moderate load for a handloaded 9.3x62 with modern powders.

Did I mention they seem to be VERY accurate? This rifle of mine was made in 1929 - a Husky 9.3x57 with .357" bore and .370" groove diameter. These TUG's indicate exceptional accuracy so far - further tests would be necesary, of course for a more definitive proof - and more than blasting 2 down-range - but - high hopes for the 9.3x62's improved ballistics and tighter groove diameter.

Strange that I just came into possession of these bullets this fall, briefly tested them 2 days ago and bingo here's a thread about them - from another Canuck yet.

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9.3x57
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: DarylS]
      #171346 - 12/11/10 07:47 AM

Some years ago it seems this bullet type was ridiculed by American writers for breaking apart. That is the problem with gun writers who don't test bullets in recovery media or kill lots of game with them before popping off in print.

IIRC, they have a dual core, yes? Hard lead alloy rear, soft pure lead front?

Most American writers seem to favor either mushrooming or monometal X-type bullets, and condemn bullets that allow portions to break off in the animal. As long as adequate penetration is obtained, and penetration does NOT seem to be a problem with this bullet, I don't see the problem with shedding some weight as it appers occured in 93's bullet.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Alberta
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Reged: 03/12/07
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Loc: Canada
Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: 9.3x57]
      #171352 - 12/11/10 08:39 AM

9.3x57, I agree and actually have a preference for a bullet that sheds weight, like the Partition.
I like anything that can be done do to increase the volume of the primary wound cavity while still having adequate penetration. Unfortunately wound diameter comes at the cost of penetration and vice versa.

Shedding a bit of weight can be an effect which reduces frontal area and increases penetration, all while still getting a great primary wound diameter. It helps balance out the wound diameter vs penetration issue. Many do not understand this dynamic and thus "default" to perfect looking mushrooms and %100 weight retention.

Edited by Alberta (12/11/10 08:46 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: Alberta]
      #171359 - 12/11/10 12:59 PM

Alberta, I think you are right.

Lead shards travel quite some distance from the main axis of bullet wound channel, and if the bullet is long-for-caliber, the bullet will still travel deeply...as long as it doesn't totally break up.

In my testing this can be seen dramatically, where shards will create a "shotgun" pattern effect surrounding the main wound channel {picture a bullet hole surrounded by a shotgun pattern}, and this can be seen plainly in the plastic jug walls. It is quite interesting to note. Obviously, monometal expanding bullet do not do this.

Now, as for whether this 293 TUG is long enough for caliber.

Does a duck quack?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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meticman
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Reged: 22/08/09
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Loc: calif
Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: 9.3x57]
      #171408 - 13/11/10 11:17 AM

As mentioned, the Nosler Partition is well known to shed a certain portion of its front core yet penetrate very predictably. it seems to have maintained a very good reputation - even an era of super premium bullets.

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Alberta
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Reged: 03/12/07
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Loc: Canada
Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: meticman]
      #174211 - 27/01/11 07:07 AM

I just chronographed some of these 293g factory RWS loads (quite old stock)out ot my 9.3x64 Brenneke with a 22" bbl.

They are going at 2475fps muzzle velocity and I managed a 5 shot group just over 2" at 100 yards.

They shoot to the same point of impact as my 286g Nosler partition load which is convenient.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: Alberta]
      #174213 - 27/01/11 07:53 AM

Don't you love it when a plan comes together.

I can reasonably confidantly say that RWS was probably the first producer of commercial projectiles and ammo to introduce 'premium' designs. Long before Nosler, Norma et al..

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dotchicco
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Reged: 16/11/16
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Loc: ITALY
Re: 9.3 TUG 296g bullet [Re: tophet1]
      #329269 - 11/06/19 07:48 AM

Nice to read this old post..
I'm a fan of this old glory, the tug bullet.
It was designed and engeneered by the greatest gun guru ever seen in Europe : Wilhelm Brenneke.
He started with the Tig, and then He created the tug. It was a natural evolution of his studies: having invented the 8x64 and the 9,3x64 it was necessary to generate a better bullet that could deal with high impact velocities.
Brenneke was a son of the dissolving austro-hungarian empire, were hunting was a serious affair for nobles, and there was, and still is, a millennial culture involving hunting, modelling the territory to increase wild life population, cooking venison.
All his bullets works in full respect of the german doctrine: one shot Only, straight in the Blatt (boiling room), the bullet must produce a wide wound, shedding weight and dumping a lot of energy, but at the same time a sure exit hole is required. This for a clear blood trail to follow with the help of a good bavarian hound. So this explain way so many dual core bullets are german... Tig, tug, H-mantel, DK, and no one in the world could do it better than a german engeneer.
The old Tug is killing from more than a century, and probably will do for another.
Doc

Edited by dotchicco (11/06/19 07:51 AM)

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