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Story
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UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead
      #170324 - 27/10/10 12:54 AM

Holmes & Watson thought to be soon on the case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11624253

Quote:

A giant red stag, thought to have been the biggest wild land animal in the UK, has been found shot dead. The creature, named the Exmoor Emperor, weighed more than 135kg (300lb) and stood nearly 2.75m (9ft) tall. He was killed in the middle of the annual rut. The stag's body was found close to the Tiverton to Barnstaple road in Devon. A licensed hunter rather than poacher is thought to have killed Emperor. Some deer experts say wild red stags should be protected during the mating season. Red deer stags are the biggest indigenous land animal left in the UK. The Exmoor Emperor, who was given his nickname by photographer Richard Austin, was believed to have been the largest wild land animal in the country.




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gryphon
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Story]
      #170333 - 27/10/10 05:05 AM

and stood nearly 2.75m (9ft) tall.

A hell of a beast @ 9 foot tall


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: gryphon]
      #170342 - 27/10/10 06:34 AM

load of bollox, saw the pics today, not a biggie by european standards, greens going bonkers again best, Mike

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Story
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170361 - 27/10/10 09:29 AM

Quote:

Today it emerged that foreign huntsmen – probably European trophy hunters – may have felled The Emperor after a bounty was literally placed on his head.

The 12-year-old red deer – which weighed 300lbs – was thought to have been gunned down as a ”trophy” with its head and magnificent antlers worth at least £2,000.

A local farmer, who asked not to be named, said: ”There has been a price on his head for years – with figures stretching to around £1,250.

”No one knows who killed it, but rumours have been circulating around here that the hunter came from abroad, probably Europe.”




http://swns.com/emperor-of-exmoor-stag-m...nty-261821.html

Ze Germans? - Turkish, SNATCH


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Huvius
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Story]
      #170365 - 27/10/10 09:52 AM

Quote:

A giant red stag, thought to have been the biggest wild land animal in the UK




Don't know about that.
Ever seen "The Two Fat Ladies" cooking

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Oldbrit
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Huvius]
      #170384 - 27/10/10 09:10 PM

The trouble is that the average UK inhabitant has no idea that Britain is a totally managed landscape and has been for several hundred years. There is no true wilderness left on this island, there are too many people and not enough space for that. Areas such as Exmoor, Dartmoor, Snowdonia and the Scottish Highlands are not wilderness as people living in bigger countries would understand it. They survive as wild areas simply because they are managed. Deer have no natural predators in the UK other than man. Leave them alone and they will breed until they starve or become a total nuisance. Muntjac deer are becoming a real road hazard where I live.

Unfortunately Joe Public is so separated from this reality they think that shooting deer is cruel and unnecessary, they just can't comprehend that the alternative is a slow death from starvation and sport hunting is totally beyond their comprehension. The media, of course, just encourage this Bambism.


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JabaliHunter
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Oldbrit]
      #170447 - 28/10/10 08:52 AM

Death of the Exmoor Emperor
The great stag was only the latest victim of misguided regulations that have devastated Exmoor's economy, says Rory Knight Bruce.
By Rory Knight Bruce
Published: 7:06AM BST 27 Oct 2010
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8089207/Death-of-the-Exmoor-Emperor.html

Who killed the "Emperor of Exmoor"? In the best tradition of that occasional West Country resident Agatha Christie, no body has yet been found. But the strong suspicion is that the stag – thought to be one of Britain's largest wild animals, at 300lb and almost 9ft tall – was shot by trophy hunters for his antlers, which could be valued at anything up to £10,000.

For those of us who live, work, farm or hunt on Exmoor, this is a sad day. The stag has long been held as emblematic of the area: it forms the symbol of the National Park, various beers and even the Dulverton laundry. At this time of year, in the rutting season, the low "groick" of their mating call – a noise not unlike a prep school master bellowing from the touchline – rings out across the coombs and dingles of the moor, to the delight of thousands of nature enthusiasts.

This latest incident has already promoted the usual condemnation of stalking, hunting and rural life in general. Peter Donnelly, a self-proclaimed deer management expert from Exmoor, has condemned the shooting, if that is what it was, as a disgrace. "If we care about deer," he says, "we should stop all persecution during this time of year."

Yet, while no one is delighting in the death of the Emperor, neither should we decry it. Stalking during the autumn is perfectly legal, in Exmoor as in Scotland, in order to keep the red deer population healthy and in check. "The fact is," says Graham Downing, editor of the journal of the British Deer Society, "a person on whose land the red deer has come has a right to kill it, even as a trophy. Clearly it is very sad when a particularly magnificent animal is killed, but it will die some way or another at some time."

Downing also says that the sporting thing would have been to choose a lesser or older stag, or a young fighter. But at the age of 12, the Emperor was nearing the end of his fertile days. Deer of that age are prone to TB, broken legs, lungworm or losing teeth, which make it difficult for them to graze. Culling their numbers is not just a kindness, but a necessity, both to keep the red deer population in check and to keep it healthy.

As Tim Bonner, political director of the Countryside Alliance, explains: "This stag was probably at a stage where he would be mating with his daughters and grand-daughters, which would significantly reduce the virility and health of the herd." Even in the League Against Cruel Sports' own deer sanctuary at Barons Down, marksmen have had to be called to dispatch sickly and inbred deer due to the absence of organised culling.

So, says Bonner: "If this stag has been culled for the right reasons and in the right way, there is nothing wrong with it. In fact, the government and conservation bodies all work together to make sure enough deer are culled to ensure they don't damage fragile habitats and environments."

In 1972, a survey of the red deer population on Exmoor concluded that it stood at between 500 and 800. Today that figure would be nearer to 3,000, an indication of the successful deer management programmes that have been in place. But with the population stabilised, the lack of natural predators means that the number of red deer on Exmoor would expand by about 30 per cent a year if they were left to their own devices, causing a massive amount of damage to forests. Bonner points out that the RSPB – not exactly a bloodthirsty body – have killed thousands of deer in Scotland to allow the regeneration of natural woodland.

Stalking deer is not just necessary, but makes a valuable contribution to Exmoor's precarious economy. In Scotland, there have been many cases of licensed council stalkers shooting deer, at considerable cost. If sportsmen are willing to pay large sums for the privilege, why not let private enterprise come into play?

Here, however, we run into the real problem – a ham-fisted regulatory regime that has seen licensed, humane stalking replaced by freelance operations, of the kind that may have taken the Emperor's life. The hunting ban of 2005 – which devastated Exmoor's economy – restricted its three staghound packs to hunting with only two hounds. For centuries previously, they had taken out full packs of hounds, selecting outlying and older deer which were then dispatched.

As the heroine of Lorna Doone says: "To outsiders, we are quite an odd place, and the hunting of stags is a local affair." Those who followed the hounds, as I can personally testify, were largely farmers who wanted to manage the deer population fairly and humanely. Yet the riders who visited to experience the feeling of flying across the majestic moors behind a pack of hounds in full cry provided an immeasurable boost to the rural economy by hiring horses, staying in pubs and using local shops and post offices.

These mounted followers used to number perhaps 200 on any given day. Since 2005, however, that trade has all but evaporated. Hotels on Exmoor have been turned into residences for bankers, with hunting enthusiasts heading instead to France. The Exmoor economy, as fragile as a wildlife habitat, now largely relies on big-bag pheasant and partridge shoots, in which visiting guns may barely know which country they are in, let alone which county. Stags have, in several instances, fallen victim to poaching or unregulated stalking, and the Emperor may be a case in point.

"This is what happens when hunting with hounds, and particularly the staghounds, has been persecuted by bad law," says Guy Thomas-Everard, a significant Exmoor landowner and vice chairman of the Devon and Somerset Staghounds. "With hunting, we have always believed we help in not too many deer being killed. [Without proper regulation] you are likely to get what has happened to this stag on a far larger scale. People quite literally start taking pot-shots."

If we are looking for a way to improve the situation, one option would be to copy the Continent – and in particular France, where all deer hunting and shooting in state-owned forests is licensed, bringing millions of pounds to the Exchequer. Once, sitting alongside the local mayor in a coracle on a lake, I was invited to use a sword to dispatch a red deer every bit as large as the Emperor, when the hounds had set him at bay. Was there an outcry? On the contrary – there were 300 cheering spectators, many recording the scene with video cameras.

If the Emperor of Exmoor – so named by Richard Austin, the photographer who first captured his likeness – has been taken and sold as a trophy, then Exmoor is a lesser place for it. But this can also be firmly attributed to the way in which the post-ban regulation has undermined the area and its economy. The results have benefited only trophy hunters, one of whom I recently met in Stockholm.

Over his life, he told me, he had attempted the "Big Five" in Africa – elephant, buffalo, lion, leopard and rhino – but had balked at the last of these. When I asked why, he said it would have cost him £40,000 – as a sportsman, he said, he had rejected the more wildlife-friendly option of having one stunned for an hour and having a prosthetic mask cast, for a reduced sum of £10,000. I hope he has not just added the Emperor to his collection instead.


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Yochanan
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #170449 - 28/10/10 09:26 AM

A pretty small stag compared to the cousins in Central Europe, Balkans, Central Asia and Russia. 135kg... and Emperor, a hind can weigh nearly the same. The really big stags are near 250-300 kilos or so. 200 kilos is pretty common.

U.K is like a giant park, no wilderness to be found.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Story
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Yochanan]
      #170466 - 28/10/10 03:42 PM

Quote:

The ‘Emperor of Exmoor’ stag was today rumoured to be alive and well – with locals insisting they have SEEN the mighty beast since its reported death.




http://swns.com/emperor-of-exmoor-stags-death-could-be-a-myth-to-fend-off-hunters-271651.html

As it's coming up on Samhain/Halloween, maybe they saw his ghost?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Story]
      #170484 - 28/10/10 08:15 PM

I wouldn't say no to that stag for GBP1000 though.

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John aka NitroX

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kamilaroi
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: NitroX]
      #170486 - 28/10/10 09:02 PM

The beast was past his prime and due to drop off inside 3 years. As to genetic potential then as the pool is limited then it's a comparable situation to Pharoanic dynasties (inbred). Best he go when he did, the remainder is a media wank!

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JabaliHunter
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: kamilaroi]
      #170492 - 28/10/10 10:18 PM

Just to be clear, we are not talking about a closed herd behind a fence. The gene pool is limited in the sense the stag holds a hareem for a number of years and fends off competing stags during that time.

A sustainable cull plan will therefore target a proportion of young, middle-aged and old deer, as well as females. The large stags are fewest in number and therefore fewer are culled in the overall plan, and they make the highest price because trophy hunters are willing to pay.

The comment about the UK being just a big park is wrong - the vast majority of deer are free-ranging and not in enclosures - and the part about wilderness is naive. I would urge you to come to the UK to experience the excellent hunting that is on offer - be it highland red deer or lowland woodland stalking.


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Yochanan
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #170511 - 29/10/10 06:32 AM

Jabali,
No it's not. Parks are not always enclosed or fenced in hence my comment is not wrong. I have not seen any national parks with fence. With a population of approximately 61 million and geographic area 241,930 sq km, slightly less than Oregon.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Yochanan]
      #170514 - 29/10/10 07:04 AM

Johan, with respect you are wrong. The deer Jabali is talking about are wild. The area they inhabit may be smaller than you are used to but if it is not fenced what is it ? best, Mike

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JabaliHunter
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Yochanan]
      #170515 - 29/10/10 07:12 AM

Ok Johan - a case of lost in translation I think.

My point is that if a deer were so inclined it could walk from Scotland to London, albeit across a few roads. Or put another way - I live in the southeast close to London. But the area I hunt is 5,500 acres without fences and there is nothing stopping deer wandering off that ground for similar distances for 360 degrees around. Most lowland (woodland) deer will never wander that far in their lifetimes, even though they can.

The presence of people is not really relevant for the presence of roe, muntjac, red and fallow deer here, as populations are expanding rapidly throughout the country. In fact I have little doubt that the wildlife density is higher here than in Sweden and most all other place in Europe. Trophy quality is also increasing, especially for roe and muntjac. In case anyone is in any doubt, these are NOT captive bred park animals (in the sense that I understand the word park in the context of deer).


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Yochanan
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Story]
      #170528 - 29/10/10 10:27 AM

Wilderness: a natural environment on that has not been modified by human activity. It may also be defined as: "The most intact, undisturbed wild natural areas left on our planet—those last truly wild places that humans do not control. My point is, since UK is so densely populated and modified by human activity there is no "wilderness" left therefore use of definition park Park: semi-natural state, or planted, and set aside for recreation and preservation. Nothing to do with the fences or fenced deer pastures Jabalihunter or Mike Bailey previously referred to.

Mike, the issue was not whether the deer wild or not. Or?

Frankly, the whole story is presented as an argument, or coup, to increase regulation for hunting, or a ban hunting altogether.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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Sville
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Yochanan]
      #170580 - 30/10/10 06:42 AM

Personally I think this is a not fare discussion, and got beyond the original tread. I have been hunting for many years north of Glasgow, I have there found wilderness. I have been hunting behind fences in Sweden, for about 300 hektars, and found wilderness. In the south of Sweden there often are so many roads crossing the hunting areas that you think that you are hunting behind fences, even they are not there. When you are hunting up in the north of S. you are in the wilderness, but there are not that many game to hunt. You can´t compare hunting areas. Its you that decide whats hunting, not anyone else. //Staffan

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Sville]
      #170644 - 31/10/10 05:48 AM

Exactly Johan, oddly enough I was on a monteria today, the finca was 5000 hectares, my "peg" or spot I drew to shoot from was looking down a valley. The fence dividing the finca I was shooting in from the next was about 50 yds behind me ! just my luck ...shot one small boar but two red deer ran behind me..the other side of the fence ! All this stuff is wild but land owners understandably put fences up. best Mike
p.s. not sure why they bother, the fence was about 1.5 metres high, surely a deer can jump that ?


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Freeloader123
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #170654 - 31/10/10 10:50 AM

How do you guys know that's the UK's biggest stag?

If you're absolutely certain that it is, that every single deer has been accounted for and this one is the largest, wouldn't that support Johan's claim that the UK is a big park?

I'm not going to go look up the dictionary definition of "wilderness." My own personal definition is that in a wilderness there's something people don't know about; something yet to be discovered.

It's not possible in the UK for a larger stag to exist without someone knowing about it?


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JabaliHunter
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: Freeloader123]
      #170708 - 01/11/10 12:11 AM

.... because it sounds better for the media hype
It was a big stag, but until the carcass is weighed and the head scored, no-one knows for sure. It may be that the hype was started by some misguided individuals in the stag hunting (i.e. on horseback with hounds) community who resent that hunting with hounds was banned and now only rifle hunting (stalking) is allowed. The park thing is nonsense.


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Freeloader123
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Re: UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor found shot dead [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #170899 - 05/11/10 04:18 AM

Quote:

.... because it sounds better for the media hype
It was a big stag, but until the carcass is weighed and the head scored, no-one knows for sure. It may be that the hype was started by some misguided individuals in the stag hunting (i.e. on horseback with hounds) community who resent that hunting with hounds was banned and now only rifle hunting (stalking) is allowed. The park thing is nonsense.




I wasn't trying to be insulting by the use of the word. I was trying to get a sense of how thoroughly the deer herd is managed and catalogued in England.

Try to understand my perspective. I can't imagine the New York Times or Washington Post printing an article about the national tragedy of the largest Mule Deer or Elk in the country getting killed.


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