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I sometimes wonder if there is a need for the 458 Lott now that the 458 works.

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Poster: atkinson6
Subject: Re: .458wm

Mickey,
Have you lost it?

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Well, oddly enough you're not the first to suggest that.

I was referring to the traditional velocities of the 470 and the 450's. The .458 was supposed to match those, it didn't.

The .458, with the newer powders, will now surpass the traditional velocities of the English calibers, as intended.

The Lott exceeded them but has any animal ever known the difference between a .470/450 and a Lott? I've certainly never had one comment to me that the Lott hurt worse. This 'improvement' has come with substantially more recoil.

As to loading the Lott down for lower pressure, is that really important anymore? The .458 has never been known for being a high pressure round like the .416 Remington.

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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The .458, with the newer powders, will now surpass the traditional velocities of the English calibers, as intended

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I have never understood folks fascination for the so-called standard length action in preferance to the Magnum length action. There is no advantage to the shorter action, in my view!

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Interesting.
I would have thought that the standard length action would....
Be easier to obtain
Give more choices regarding type/make available
Cost less
Weigh less
Be stiffer
Have shorter/faster bolt throw

But then I'm a doubles man so what would I know about boltguns anyway?




Edited by 4seventy (08/08/04 08:00 PM)

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I have never understood folks fascination for the so-called standard length action in preferance to the Magnum length action. There is no advantage to the shorter action, in my view!


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Interesting.
I would have thought that the standard length action would....
Be easier to obtain
Give more choices regarding type/make available
Cost less
Weigh less
Be stiffer
Have shorter/faster bolt throw

But then I'm a doubles man so what would I know about boltguns anyway?

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What I was refering to was in it's use! There is only one time you need to find a mag action for each rifle, and there are plenty of them around! As far as weighing less, that isn't a plus when one is useing something like a 458 win mag! Be stiffer, is no problem on anything other than a target rifle, as long as it is strong enough for the cartridge chambered in it. If it isn't that strong, then it isn't worth buying in the first place! There is absolutely no advantage to a short action for hunting BIG GAME, but there is a real draw back to haveing only a short action, when one wants to build DGRs, for most of the best DGR cartridges require a MAGNUM ACTION! IMO, if you simply have to use a short action, the 416 Taylor is a far more effecient cartridge than the 458 Win Mag. The reduction of the 458 case to 416 suddenly is not under capacity for caliber!

Just because one has a favorite rifle type is no indication he knows nothing of other types! but, you knew that didn't you? I'm sure you, like me have several of each chambered for everything from .22lr, to 577NE.

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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The reduction of the 458 case to 416 suddenly is not under capacity for caliber!

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The 458 was designed to match the 450NE 3 1/4" double rifle round, and It did not in it's new round days

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The 458 was designed to match the 450NE 3 1/4" double rifle round, and It did not in it's new round days

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Alan The 458 Win mag was only brought out to satisfy a need for a 2150 to 2200 fps .458 diameter cartridge to take the place of lack of ammo available from the old NE ammo makers. The 458 Win Mag could do it with very compacted powder loads, that gave a lot of hang fires, and squib loads, after the ammo was loaded for only a short time. The compressed powder became a solid, and did not burn properly. The mistake was not only the lack of good powders that we have today, but the case capacity, in conjunction with the old powder, and a 500 gr bullet, were all package that did work well together! Even with the existing powders they had at the time, the use of a longer case (375 H&H length) and the very nice Win mod 70 long action, and a 480 gr soft, and solid would have been a snapp to load to exactly 450NE 3 1/4" duplicate. All this with no hang fires, or squib loads, that killed the 458 Win Mag's reputation. The barrel length was not the problem, but the length of the cartridge case!

Even with today's powders, the 458 Win Mag should be loaded with a bullet no heavier than 450 grs. The case capacity is not large enough to handle 500 gr bullets effeciently, without very high pressure, and compressing the powder, which has a potential for problem. I still say, no matter how you load the 458 Win Mag, the Lott case will take care of all it's ills!

The 458 Win Mag with a 500 gr bullet, compressed powder, and a case capacity of 93.29 grs of water, compaired to the Lott's over 105 grs of water capacity, is a combination of parts that remind me of Johny Cash's song "CADILLAC, ONE PIECE AT A TIME " Goes on to say it's a 1956,57, 58, 59............. Parts simply do not go well together. The cartridge is OK, but it will never be what it was intended to be, without a lot of problems. The best use of 458 Win Mag is, to down load it with a 400/450 gr bullet with a senseable powder charge, and use it as it works best, or simply re-chamber to the 458 LOTT, and have the best of both worlds, without the problems!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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