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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #193411 - 09/11/11 04:22 AM

This picture shows quite graphically, why I keep spouting off about making your brass fit the chamber if you want your brass to last.



Note the case on the left - it has the longest neck length. This means the body of that case is the shortest of the three and if that case is shot in a longer chamber, the body will blow forward stretching the case - usually at the web - causing premature case loss in a loading or two, ending in case head separations at the web - unfortunately normal for the .303 due ot sloppy chambers and failure to fit brass prior to it's being fired the first time.

The case in the middle has a slightly shorter neck than the left case, and appears in the middle of the two outside cases for neck and body length. Note the different shoulder of the far right case - having a slightly shorter neck and the shortest body length as well, due to it's sloping shoulder angle.

Brithunter - as you noted - the chamber walls are not sloppy like many military chambers show. They fit the ctg. base nicely and should promote longer than normal case life.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (17/11/11 02:11 AM)


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #193456 - 09/11/11 10:18 PM

Quote:


BTW - what is ball-burnishing? Is it pulling a 'button' through the bore to iron the lands - or something similar?




Thought I had something in the Tilley Files

Page 76 of The Parker Hale Gun Catalogue No 67 details Ball Burnishing as:
'The Ball Burnishing process consists of forcing very finely graded hard steel balls through barrels that have been selected from target quality production for all aspects of their internal condition.

The ball is first selected to match the initial bore size or gauge of the individual barrel; it is continuously passed through the bore and in succession balls of slightly greater size are used to level out any internal imperfections, thereby imparting to the lands a homogeneous work hardened surface which assists accuracy through improved parallelism whilst effectively increasing the resistance of the lands

Ball Burnishing enlarges the average bore by approximately one half thousandth of an inch, an almost infinitesimal amount which in no circumstances can cause detrimental effect.

New barrels are officially acceptable today when made between .301" and .304" gauge, but 98% of new barrel production is found to gauge between .301" and .3025".

After Ball Burnishing, these sizes may be increased to a maximum .30275" gauge.

Barrels when sectioned show that Ball Burnished samples have a dark mirror-like surface of the lands, whereas others not burnished although well-rifled disclose innumerable cross-cuts.
Even the finest boring leaves a series of tiny cross-cuts which tend to tear the metal from the bullet envelope during its passage up the barrel.
Not only does it improve the surface as stated above, but it is to be recommended mainly on new barrels to improve their initial levelness, to extend their normal life and to minimise the collection of metallic fouling.

It is not recommended for barrels that have been so worn as to round off the corners of the lands, for this reduces the area of contact to the ball in the burnishing process.

Nevertheless, a barrel that is not too badly worn can often have its accuracy improved by Ball Burnishing.


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tophet1
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #193458 - 09/11/11 10:42 PM

Crikey, you learn something new every day.

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bonanza
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #193460 - 09/11/11 11:03 PM

Can someone please post a picture of this Ruger 303!

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: bonanza]
      #193476 - 10/11/11 02:31 AM

tks Tillyman - figured it had to be an early version of buttoning on the lands.

This is done today by a number of muzzleloading barrel makers, while button rifling, which also leaves the tops of the lands polished, is the main method of making most (but not all) rifle barrels today.

That 'burnished' barrel is certainly an interesting 'find'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #193696 - 13/11/11 01:41 PM

Quick update after another trip to the range...

I had a hunch that the barrel itself may need a good 'heat cycling' (for want of a better word...) to settle down, which worked on a previous SMLE No 4 Mk 1 I owned.

So rather than s-l-o-w-l-y shoot my group, waiting for the barrel to cool down between each shot I shot a rapid 5 shot string (the light barrel got VERY hot) then fired two 5 shot strings using Remington 180gr factory ammo.

This was the same ammo batch as the one which produced pronounced vertical stringing as the barrel heated up.

Each 5 shot string was fired with the barrel sizzling hot (not good practice I know, but necessary for this experiment...)

Look at the groups produced... no change to bedding, fore-end pressure, hold position or benchrest equipment





Edited by CptCurl (17/11/11 02:15 AM)


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Phillip
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #193724 - 13/11/11 11:16 PM

Ain't nothing wrong with that!

--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: Phillip]
      #193750 - 14/11/11 03:44 AM

Amazing, compared to the previous test. Who'd have thought factory ammo would/could be so good. Some rifles like to be shot hot, while other string and open groups with heat.

#1's have sometimes been strange in the manner they react to different input.

What was your slow fire group like?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #193759 - 14/11/11 08:25 AM

Quote:

What was your slow fire group like?




I was amazed at the difference too, but the hot groups were the final ones fired that day with the last few rounds of Remington factory ammo.

Will try slow fire groups next range trip and report back.

Generally I've been quite impressed with recent Remington factory ammo... my ZKW465 Hornet shoots well under an inch at 100m just with ordinary 45gr Corelokts, and my Sako L61R .270W shoots just over MOA using plain-vanilla 130gr Corelokt loads.

My only issue is the Remington brass appears to have missed a final neck annealing process (vs the obvious light blue neck annealing colours on Lapua and even Highland brass) and I sometimes experience neck splits on first firing of the factory ammo. I now routinely neck anneal after FLS and trimming and get very good case life.


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #193798 - 15/11/11 03:46 AM

Winchester .458 brass sometimes has annealing colours.

As to why the RP factory load brass would split - obviously, too hard and not annealed properly, but they & WW always tumble them to polish off annealing colours - so annealing colours are not normal on them as theya re on Lapua brass.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: 450]
      #194070 - 18/11/11 10:16 PM

Went to the range today and tried the replacement No1 in 303 out. I used Rem factory 180 grain to zero the scope. 3 into 20mm at 50mts. I let the rifle cool then shot several groups to try out different loads withj no time to cool the barrel. The group below was the second last group and the load I will go with. Very happy with how this rifle shoots.




Just some pic's to show the stock. It has a lot of figure but not garish. Foreend is a bit plainer.











Edited by CptCurl (23/11/11 11:11 PM)


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Brithunter
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: Rule303]
      #194146 - 20/11/11 02:54 AM

Glad to hear it's shooting to your liking now. I like the butt stock yes it's got nice figure. Still cannot get over the slot in the fore end. if it was me that would have to go ....................... a nice bit of horn would fix it.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: Brithunter]
      #194147 - 20/11/11 03:17 AM

If you're happy with it, fine, but I guess you know that is a VERY soft load for such a rifle. It is also a low pressure load even for a Mk1 #3.
Nice looking rifle. I don't mind "Their" Alex Henry forend at all.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #194254 - 20/11/11 10:08 PM

Daryl_s, yes that is a light load. First of the development stage. I will be using Norma brass only and working up some decent loads for the No1. I would think the Alex Henry fore end-it has grown on me- could be usefull when shooting off sticks it here is a leather s strap joining the sticks?

Non Norma brass will be used in the No5 Jungle carbine.


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: Rule303]
      #194314 - 21/11/11 07:02 AM

I don't think I'd get that fancy with cross sticks. I rest the back of my hand on the crossed sticks. That way, it shoots identically to the way I sighted it in, which is identical to it's poi when shot offhand.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Brithunter
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #194334 - 21/11/11 10:44 AM

I got nosey and took a look on Guntrader and found a couple of these Rugers Listed for sale NIB. prices varied a little but were very reasonable at under $900 I thought which is well under half the price our greedy importers told me when I enquired about them.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!


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Brithunter
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #194335 - 21/11/11 10:59 AM

Quote:

This picture shows quite graphically, why I keep spouting off about making your brass fit the chamber if you want your brass to last.



Note the case on the left - it has the longest neck length. This means the body of that case is the shortest of the three and if that case is shot in a longer chamber, the body will blow forward stretching the case - usually at the web - causing premature case loss in a loading or two, ending in case head separations at the web - unfortunately normal for the .303 due ot sloppy chambers and failure to fit brass prior to it's being fired the first time.

The case in the middle has a slightly shorter neck than the left case, and appears in the middle of the two outside cases for neck and body length. Note the different shoulder of the far right case - having a slightly shorter neck and the shortest body length as well, due to it's sloping shoulder angle.

Brithunter - as you noted - the chamber walls are not sloppy like many military chambers show. They fit the ctg. base nicely and should promote longer than normal case life.




Whoops must have been asleep to miss this post The funny thing is I only keep cases segregated for the Belgian Martini the others all use HXP 69 Brass with a few Winchesters sometimes. Despite loading for several different 303's and normally full length sizing I had yet to have a case separation on a hand load. Had a few partial ones with some milsurp ammo. My dies a a set of RCBS reload Special dies in the plastic clam shell packaging so nothing special really.

Only have five 303 chambered rifles now not including the Century Arms P-14 Centurion that I had re-chambered for .303 Imp having sold the Martini AC11 to make room for another sporting rifle for the collection in 2009. The BSA sporter retailed by Wm Powell had a new 39 dated surplus barrel fitted just before I acquired it yet despite being a surplus barrel it too has a nice chamber. I just must be very lucky on this score.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!


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Rule303
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #194836 - 25/11/11 01:04 PM

Quote:

I don't think I'd get that fancy with cross sticks. I rest the back of my hand on the crossed sticks. That way, it shoots identically to the way I sighted it in, which is identical to it's poi when shot offhand.




That makes a lot of senese.


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Brithunter
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: Rule303]
      #194838 - 25/11/11 01:26 PM

Ok if you thought the shoulder on those 303 cases varied then check out a case from the Muscat Martini:-





That's why I keep the R.P brass separate.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Edited by CptCurl (26/11/11 12:48 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: Brithunter]
      #194903 - 26/11/11 05:23 AM

I take you you mean you only shoot RP in that martini, to keep them separate from the others. Was that Martini converted from a rimfire? I didn't think the large block Martini's were ever chambered for any rimfire round. That pin is sure off-centre.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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wjw
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: DarylS]
      #194915 - 26/11/11 10:09 AM

Daryl

Large Martinis were converted to .22 RF match rifles for the small bore clubs in England - had an 1876 BSA that was stampeed on the left side "Converted by C. G. Bonehill of Brimingham for tje Society of Miniature Rifle Clubs". Still have the barrel and action without the internal parts and Parker aperature sight. These went missing when the gunsmith shop was sold and the new owner moved the equipment.

There were quite a number of these for sale at Lever Arms in Vancouver in the mid to late 1960's in the $50.00 range.

While not great looking or as comfortable to shoot, the rifle shot as well as the regular Match BSA's

Bill


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Phillip
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Re: Ruger No 1 303 [Re: wjw]
      #200512 - 24/01/12 10:32 PM

I got mine up and running,174 RN Hornady,IMR 4064,norma brass,Fed 210 primer.The forearm was sanded out to remove any high spots,then a pressure point bedded at the tip.Mine does have a long throat and can not touch it with any bullet....?


--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


Edited by CptCurl (06/03/12 11:05 PM)


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