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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Supersporter40
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Reged: 05/12/08
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Loc: Alberta Canada, in the dog hou...
Suhl style claw mount
      #170534 - 29/10/10 01:52 PM

I have a lovely Husqvarna 146 in 9,3x57. Now I generally consider it taboo to D&T a vintage firearm but I want to put a 'period style' scope and mount system on it. Many I have seen have the side mount but I prefer the claw mount. Before I go and buy anything willy nilly can anyone suggest what might be best. It is a Large Ring 98 action. I am used to having a high mounted scope from shooting my Brno 21H.

If I recall my rifle was built in `39. Length of pull is 14 1/2". I tend to creep up on the scope but it is not hard to shoot it in the European straight up stance.

Hensoldt 4X?
Kahles 4x40?

Some of the claw mounts on the front base have an additional base that is either sweated or D&T'd to the ring so the dovetail is not cut into the actual receiver. Is it really needed with a lower power cartridge like this?

What is the best release system.... Vienna, single lever or the sping loaded slides?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

SS

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ozhunter
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #170536 - 29/10/10 02:34 PM

Recknagel make a nice set but cost about $1500 fitted..
At that price, I would just go for Recknagel low Swing off mounts.
The steel tubed 4x36 Schmidt & Bender is a great option for this and they are available.


Edited by CptCurl (29/10/10 11:40 PM)

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Supersporter40
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Reged: 05/12/08
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: ozhunter]
      #170538 - 29/10/10 02:57 PM

Hi Oz Hunter.

Looked at the Recknagles but they are worth 3x the rifle as you have mentioned. Really just after the Suhl type claw mount, an origonal "period" mount and scope to match.

I just can't bring myself to use modern gear on a vintage rig..... its the OCD coming out in me.

Also, hoping to not need to cut off the bolt handle, reweld and rework the stock to clear the new bolt.

Edited by Supersporter40 (29/10/10 02:59 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #170545 - 29/10/10 07:18 PM

I can understand your intention very well. my husqvarna M 46 came d&t so it was clear for my to use the situation and mounting a scope on it. probably would not do it if the rifle was without the holes in the receiver.
a period scope is a must in my eye's and they are easy to find here on ebay or egun. something in the class of a zeiss ziel 4. the side mount is a also a good option.
ok, I had to cover something and the suhl claw mount was the only way.the scope I got was an old oigee 4x that comes with the feet's.
my gunmaker had enough old parts and so it goes very cheap.

yes, he set the front base much to high and must change it again.

EAW make such old style side mounts http://www.eaw.de/eaw/webkatalog/drZf_21_AM_seitl_M.pdf

only pic of a swede with a side mount I found just now but it was very common and looks very pc


like here on my mannlicher



Edited by CptCurl (29/10/10 11:41 PM)

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Supersporter40
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: lancaster]
      #170566 - 30/10/10 05:10 AM


yes, he set the front base much to high and must change it again.





Now we're talking!

How do you find the eye relief lancaster?
How much scope clearance do you have for the bolt handle?

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lancaster
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #170574 - 30/10/10 06:17 AM

when the Suhler Einhakmontage is the queen of scope mounts the soldered half ring for fixing the scope is her crown.



so I was not realy happy that the scope came with this full rings. but they make the work a lot more inexpensive because you dont have to dismantle the scope complete for soldering the rings.
position of the front plate and rear base is were the receiver like to have it. then you can loosen the srews and bring the scope in the right eye relief. something dont possible or not easy with soldered rings.
I have make you a picture from the open bolt handle and you see that there are 10-12mm between handle and scope. remember that I have a M 94 Mauser and the bolt handle is the original model. when my gunmaker have change the whole mount the scope will coming +/- 7mm deeper.



a Mauser 98 will look different and you can allways change the bolt handle like this here with an american Talley mount.
Btw, a very "classic" looking scope mount



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (31/10/10 12:47 AM)

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Supersporter40
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Reged: 05/12/08
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: lancaster]
      #170601 - 30/10/10 02:00 PM

Thanks for sharing those pics Lancaster.

For eye relief I was meaning how much relief do you have with the Oigee Luxor? If I can find that out then I can roughly figure how a particular scope will or won't work on my HVA.
I am guessing the full ring on the front is best as compared to the soldered mounts.

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lancaster
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #170619 - 30/10/10 06:57 PM

of course it depend also your eye's!
I have three pre war scope's on rifle's and all have a different optimal eye relief. I can only estimate it but think the Oigee Luxor 4x have 4 cm, the Zeiss Ziel 4 have 5cm and the Ajack 4x have 5,5cm.
A post war Pecar 4x81 have 7cm and this is the common distance for modern scope's iirc.
I dont feel that the Oigee is to close to my eye, its not a super magnum.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Supersporter40
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: lancaster]
      #170656 - 31/10/10 11:36 AM

Good to know there is so much variance in eye relief! Didn't think there would be that much.

Which scope do you like the best?

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lancaster
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #170710 - 01/11/10 12:56 AM

good question! which of my rifle's do I like the best? no, I love them all.
see what you can get for a scope but be warned old scope's can become a collecting fever like old rifle's.
the Zeiss Ziel 4 is the most prestigious of all and get the highest price. when thinking about your hunting possibility's I believe that a small 4x scope would be enough for hunting at day light on big game like moose.
early post war scope's are also possible because they are build in the same way.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Supersporter40
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: lancaster]
      #170820 - 02/11/10 12:07 PM

I know what you mean..... sorta like the 1895 Winchester that just showed up today....where's the drool icon.

This rifle will be mainly a Bear and Moose rifle, I concur 4X is the way to go, and seems the most popular for what is available.

Going by this pic of my bolt handle, it looks like it will need to be reshaped regardless of mount hieght. Was hoping to not have to do that but oh well.



Iron's can still work the magic.


Edited by CptCurl (06/11/10 06:21 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #170964 - 05/11/10 06:07 PM

I would say that a side mount could possible work with this bolt.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Supersporter40
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: lancaster]
      #175747 - 18/02/11 04:11 PM

Just a little update on the project kids.

The rifle has been sent off for extensive stock recontruction and a refreshed outside including oiled stock and the checkering recut. This had to be done to fix a less than optimum job done by another party.

A scope has been procured although I must say it is ten years newer than the rifle, only barely "period" legal. A Kahles S1 27 with German #1 reticle. It is mint.

A German claw and base set up has been won as of tonight, I won't see it for a couple weeks at least. Going to try being sneeky here by getting it drilled with a typical Weaver hole spacing they use on the FN actions. The mount is set up for a rail type scope. Going to modify some suitable rings to fit the dovetail and achieve the desired hieght.

Breach bolt will need to be modified but that is still in the design stages. Need the scope and mount to get that figured.

A note of thanks for the help here guys. Appreciate the ideas.

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Sville
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #175752 - 18/02/11 09:25 PM

Nice moose //S

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Supersporter40
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Sville]
      #175788 - 19/02/11 09:03 AM

Thanks Sville. It would be called and Elk over there in Sweden would it not?

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AFRO408
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Reged: 21/01/09
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Loc: Arding NSW
Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #176345 - 28/02/11 07:44 PM

It may be too late for ideas, but this is how i mounted a 6x42 on my 1904 Verguiero 7x57.





It's easily detached by undoing 4 screws. I only plan to use the iron sights in case I damage the scope while hunting.

Nice Moose there mate, and with open sights!

Cheers,
Afro

Edited by CptCurl (18/03/11 08:55 AM)

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Supersporter40
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: AFRO408]
      #176597 - 04/03/11 02:57 PM

Hi there Afro. Beautiful mount you made there!

You are not too late at all. I just got my rifle back on Monday from having the stock restored and today the German claw mount arrived but it is not going quite as planned.

1.My receiver has a big hump to mill off, not excited about that. No real reason why. I made teh mistake of assuming the rear claw base would clear it. My bad.

2.The claw mount I got has two different hieghts. (it is meant for a rail scope) At first the idea was to remove the rail scope and then machine the rail style dovetail onto the bottom of another set of rings. The theory was sound but by the time that is done to even the lowest ring hieght the scope is going to be too high. Now I am almost tempted to try and mill some lugs on the bottom of some rings, copying the original set in order to get the scope lower. Now I am having a hard time locating a ring with enough meat underneath to leave material to mill/fit and also finish up with the proper hieght.

If only I was not so picky and could live with those nice Talley mounts Lancaster already posted above. It is mighty tempting but I know this is just a steep learning curve. It will sort itself out even if I go bald in the process.

The front claw base was soldered on so my plan was to drill it to a standard hole spacing, allowing other mounts to be used if this all goes south. The last wrench in the gear is the hole spacing already in the rear mount is a half hole out of being the standard FN rear hole spacing. Bugger!




Edited by CptCurl (18/03/11 08:57 AM)

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AFRO408
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Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: Supersporter40]
      #176741 - 07/03/11 02:53 PM

Thanks, Supersporter

You're not having any luck at all, are you.

I know it's nice to be traditional and all, but I think of it this way.
The hunters and shooters of yesteryear used what was available, to them and their craftsmen at the time, so if it looks good or is custom made, then I'll use it.

Cheers,
Afro

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.

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Supersporter40
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Reged: 05/12/08
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Loc: Alberta Canada, in the dog hou...
Re: Suhl style claw mount [Re: AFRO408]
      #176897 - 10/03/11 09:42 AM

I don't think it is bad luck at all, just challenges. It's all good. Now my Kahles S1 27 having such short eye relief was a bummer. I was going to use it on this rifle but I dare not with only 2 1/2" eye relief there will be a cut on the brow first shot fired. Hahaha...

Anyone out there know off hand what the eye relief is on a Kahles H4/60?

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