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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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NitroXAdministrator
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.500/.416 ?
      #1675 - 16/02/03 10:40 PM

I'm looking for information on the .500/.416 as is chambered in the Krieghof double rifles.

Particularly its ballistics and for bullet weights such as a 400 gr, 350 gr, 325 gr and 300 gr bullets.

Thanks.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #1699 - 19/02/03 12:36 AM

OK Look and ye shall find. I have found some ballistic information myself on the Kreighoff site.

Ballistics for the .500/.416 NE (3 1/4")
(Test barrel 25,5" / 65cm)

PMAX: 39,885 psi (2,750 bar), Copper crusher method
44,962 psi (3,100 bar), Piezzo method

Bullet: Woodleigh softpoint and solid 410 grs (26.6g)

Velocity: 2,330 ft/sec (710m/s)

Energy at muzzle: 4,940 Ft lb (6,700 J)

These characteristics indicate an ideal combination of high energy and flat trajectory. The .500/.416 NE provides maximum effectiveness with moderate pressure. As shown above, velocity and energy are similar to the belted .416 calibers like .416 Rigby, but the .500/.416 NE offers the supreme advantage of a rimmed case suitable for double rifles.

************************

So from these numbers lets assume the for a 23 1/2 inch barrel the velocity is 2,200 fps with a 410 gr bullet. That would make a 350 gr bullet about 2500 fps and a 300 gr maybe about 2700 fps.

A 300 gr would almost have the same trajectory of a 235 gr .375. Plus a 410 gr .416 bullet at 2200 fps would penetrate pretty well too.

Not bad!


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John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #1700 - 19/02/03 12:49 AM

While at the Krieghoff site I had a really good look round.

Check out some of these pics



I like the idea of a .500/.416 doubling as a plains game rifle as well as a dangerous game rifle.

The Kreighoff comes setup to allow European style QD mount and scope, so perhaps a scope could be setup for say a 325 gr Barnes X and the express sights setup for 410 gr Woodleighs.



It appears the Krieghoff can also be ordered with several sets of barrels and a standard option seems to be a double rifle with a 20 gauge shotgun set of barrels as well.

Or a "Big Five" set of barrels such as a .500 NE, .500/.416 or 375 Flanged, with a set of smaller calibres such as 8x57 mm or .30-06, 7x57mm.



I also like the "Cape Gun" setup where you can choose say a 20 gauge and a 9.3x74mmR rifle barrel.

In a fantasy world I would go for a .500/.416 double, a set of barrels for 20 g SxS, and a Cape Gun set of barrels in 20g / 9.3 mm.

If anyone has used one of these, or knows someone who has I would appreciate knowing what they thought and experiences etc. Any negatives/pluses? Thanks.


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John aka NitroX

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cchunter
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #1706 - 19/02/03 07:15 AM

................ I have hold one in my hands, and what an experience it was...................

John, sjhame on you giving me those nightmares back again. I'm dreaming that I have this rifle and when I open my gunbox there is only a regular double in it. I hope you understand my problem.....

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Christer Hansson

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HK416
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #1707 - 19/02/03 11:26 AM

John,
Like you have seen the the ballistics of the 500/416 are very simmilar to 416 rigby. In fact they are supposed to be identical, yet with lower chamber pressure making it ideal for double rifles. The only problem with the loading of different bullets is that may dramatically effect the regulation of the barrels. My double rifle expierance is limited to my 9.3x74 over/under so I cannot confirm the effects on a sideXside. Through practice I have been able to consitantly place good shot groups with different wieght bullets by adjusting aiming points. I must agree with you about how beautiful the krieghoff is and from the performance my cz actioned 416 rigby would love a well balanced double with the same punch.
regards, Hal

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: HK416]
      #1714 - 20/02/03 04:38 PM

HK416

What really got me keen on this rifle was a omment by another hunter about using such a rifle as a plains game rifle.

Now I have never really thought of a double as a plains game rifle before but if you use it as a single shot, why not?

If you can develop a lighter faster load with a good trajectory and accuracy, put a scope on the rifle. Sight the "plains game" load in for the scope and away you go.

Sight in the express sights for a 410 grainer and you have a close-in (up to 150 metres) dangerous game load.

And a takedown, easy to travel with to boot. Great stuff.

Of course there are issues with having two or three sets of ammo but whats the difference to taking with two different rifles? You have to carry two with you that way.

Definitely the concept has got the thought processes going.

Hal,

what is your U/O 9.3x74mmR? And what do you use it for?

Sounds like a great rig for medium sized game.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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HK416
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #1783 - 27/02/03 09:49 AM

John,
My 9,3x74r is a Tikka 512 with 12ga interchangeable barrels. This makes it a very flexible gun. Mainly I use it for wing shooting with the 12ga barrels. Though I did take a nice whitetail with Brenneke slugs in those barrels. With the 9.3 barrels I try to go after whitetail and boar where rifle hunting is permitted. As I have yet to get to africa I can only speculate on how well it would work on plains game, though from what I have read it should do the job quite well. The only shortcoming is the lack of solids available, leaving tackling anything bigger out of the question if there were no legal min caliber. Though I am very happy with this set-up I think I would prefer 375 magnum for the added punch and bullet availability. Do you know of anyone trying for Aussie buff with a 9.3? If so I would love to know their thoughts.
regards, Hal

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: HK416]
      #1804 - 28/02/03 01:17 PM

HK416

I believe Woodleigh makes a 286 gr FMJ for a 9.3 mm. Do you reload?

Also a 320 gr SP that sounds like it would be perfect if you can get enough velocity.

I believe RWS also makes a 286 gr FMJ as well.



--------------------
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...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DUGABOY1
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #2756 - 11/05/03 04:34 AM

Guys, I have owned several S/S double rifles chambered for 9.3X74R, and the Woodliegh 286 gr solid, and soft work like charm on Cape Buffalo. The 9.3X74R is the minimum chambering for the big five in most African countries. Untill this year it was ligal for bufflao and cats in Tanzania, and many, many buffalo were taken over the years with these handy little double rifles. Now 375 H&H is minimum there for the big four, excluding the Leopard. However it is legal in most other countries, even for Elephant! The 9.3X74R is a very under rated round!

Nosler makes a 286 gr Nosler Partition, that is great in this cartridge, and teamed up with a woodliegh solid, will make a one gun Safari possible, especially if a QD scope is available.

It is best to stick with one weight bullet in a double rifle, and just alternate between soft, and solid.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
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4seventy
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: HK416]
      #2780 - 12/05/03 01:41 PM

Hal
Yes, plenty of buffalo have been taken in OZ with the 9.3 cal.
John
Maybe you might be able to get the plains load to regulate and set the scope up to make the rifle an all round proposition.
One non-plus, for my way of thinking, is that it is harder to achieve a really solid mounting for the scope on some doubles as opposed to most bolt guns. There often seems to be a lot of unsupported scope length protruding behind the rear scope ring on many doubles.
There are ways of getting around the problem of course.
I think you should buy one straight away and start experimenting.

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NE450No2
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #4993 - 17/11/03 04:50 PM

I have not had any problems getting 400gr and 300gr bullets to hit to the same poa and regulate in my 450/400 3 1/4", the same goes for my 450 No2 with 500gr, 480gr and 350gr bullets.
A 500/416 with a scope would make an excellent all round double for Africa or anywhere else.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #5197 - 26/11/03 02:32 PM

NitroX:

My hunting partner has a Krieghoff .500/.416 (with extra 20 bore and .375 Flanged Magnum barrels) that I've shot quite a bit.

As noted above, standard ballistics for it were developed in 25,5" barrels and the Krieghoff barrels are 23,5". I chronographed three lots of Krieghoff factory (Wolfgang Romey) ammo and none came up to 2300 fps, averaged around 2260. This stuff was pretty erractic and accuracy wasn't great.

We worked up a load using Krieghoff's recipe of H1000, Federal 215 primers and 410 grain Woodleighs in new Bell cases. 107.5 grains H1000 gave 2250 fps and excellent accuracy. Heavier charges gave slightly higher velocity, but produced immediate and significant vertical dispersion.

Hmmm. So, with 410 grain bullets the .500/.416 gives 125 fps more velocity than the 400 grain .450/.400 3" NE, but does so at the expense, despite the larger .500 case, of 18 tons pressure vs 16 tons for the .450/.400. It falls 150 fps short of the .416 Rigby. Traditionally, 18 tons has been considered rather high pressure for use in a double. It is too early to tell if the .500/.416 rifles will come off face prematurely and it may work out fine in the new doubles with their modern steels. I suspect it will be OK.

Ted's rifle functions smoothly, is pleasant to shoot and is very accurate with both rifle barrel sets. The .416 often gives 2.5" 4 shot groups at 100 with sights (these barrels are not scoped) and the .375 (1.5-5X Leupold) will stay in 1.5" at 100 with 300 grain Woodleighs but 270 grain produce buckshot patterns. Hard not to like a double rifle that shoots like that. Pity about the safety though.
-----------------------------

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .500/.416 ? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #5199 - 26/11/03 10:16 PM

400NE

Welcome to the NE Forums. Glad to have you here.

Very interesting actual results that you posted. But to my mind I would be happy to get 2200 fps for the 410 gr anyway.

BTW - What a fantastic set of barrels your friend has.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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