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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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hoser
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Loc: California, USA
HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1?
      #156637 - 16/03/10 09:00 AM

Looking at a sub-$1000 single shot. How do these 3 compare in terms of quality, accuracy and reliability? From what I gather, the B78 is the pre-1885 version. What, if anything, makes the 1885 better? Thanks.

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DarylS
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: hoser]
      #156643 - 16/03/10 10:42 AM

Hoser - you can delete your other posts.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Grenadier
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: DarylS]
      #156648 - 16/03/10 12:06 PM

The B-78 and 1885 are basically the same action.

I recommend the Ruger unless you intend to use the rifle for Black Powder Silhouette or similar competition that requires a rifle with an external hammer. The Ruger is the only one of the three with a real safety. The other two only use a half-cock position for the hammer and the rifle can discharge if the hammer accidentally slips while moving it to the half cock position.

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poprivit
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Grenadier]
      #156736 - 17/03/10 06:37 AM

What caliber are you looking for? I've got a Ruger #1 in 375 H&H, stainless, laminate that I'll sell along with a lifetime supply of ammo (140 rounds, 40 cases) for $850. I've shot it around 20 times. Works as advertised.

Tom Murphy
Please reply if interested to:
tfmurphy3@yahoo.com


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hoser
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: poprivit]
      #156748 - 17/03/10 09:54 AM

Looking for something like 30-06, 7mm rem mag or maybe 300wm. Something with a little reach, but yet very common caliber with ammo availability.

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450_EXPRESS
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: hoser]
      #156762 - 17/03/10 02:53 PM

I've had both the Browning 78 and still have a Ruger #1 both mid '70's vintage. Personally I think quality wise they're real comperable. The stock on the 78 was chunky enough I was able do a little reshaping and get rid of the epoxy type finish which improved it's looks. I think it just comes down to which type of action and style you like better. Either one worked fine.

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hoser
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: 450_EXPRESS]
      #168002 - 19/09/10 08:53 AM

Did Browning discontinue the 1885 and now call it the B78 again (like they used to be called)? I went to Browning website and they list the B78 as their single shot now!

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Tom_H
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: hoser]
      #168006 - 19/09/10 09:59 AM

Hello Hoser.

I would opt for the #1 and second Grenadier's recommendation. I have had both rifles apart and if need be you can always pick up an aftermarket trigger for the #1. The only comment that I have is that the #1 in calibers like 30-06 is a nice rifle to carry but a bit painful off of the bench. The way that stock is cut is pretty continental. That being said, that combination with a 2-8 Leopold could be one of the best all around for most US hunting
I don't recall the browning to be as bad but I could be wrong. By the way, the Browning finish comes off with certistrip from Brownells. Causes cancer in rocks, but really does a neat job of taking it off.

The only #1 I have currently is a .375H&H. Super accurate gun and not too bad to shoot with the heavy barrel and a sling.

Cheers,

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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500Boswell
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Tom_H]
      #168010 - 19/09/10 11:34 AM

I have had a Miroku and a 1885 ,i my a opinion they are better made than the Ruger, although the Ruger has good points, i had one in 375 which i was going to convert to 577 ,i sold all the barrel and bits to Aussie steve in the end .Have a look at both and decide which one you like better ,the browning may look more archaic with exposed hammer etc ,the Ruger nicer to look at ,the action on Browning i found tighter and slicker than the Ruger .

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Rockdoc
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #168013 - 19/09/10 12:23 PM

Check each No1 personally for fit and finish. My new 450-400 is nowhere near as tight as an older No1 I have at the moment. I am hoping it smooths up with use, but still won't be any tighter!

Of the three mentioned, I prefer the No1. But I really like the Soroko rifles (not having handled one though, but have heard good reports). Also the Hagn. Unfortunately none of which come in under $1000, unless you get really lucky!

Cheers, Chris


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Cigar
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: hoser]
      #169631 - 15/10/10 11:38 PM

I all boils down to what you like... I love all the single shots that are around 10 to 14k... Will I have one?? Nope, not unless I find a wealthy lady that thinks I look sexy with one in my hands.. Chances of that happening are slim to none and slim just got on the bus...

I had a custom #1 in a 257wby mag.. What a rifle !! It was a death ray.. The only knock was the guy that had it built had the smith "mag-na-port?" it for crying out loud.. That was like adding a amplifier on 10 to the gun.. It was the only rifle that I heard while shooting a deer.. It even would ring my ears.. I had to sell it because it was so loud I was flinching real bad.. I finally shot under a 7 or 8 point at 40 yards and sold it..

Once things get a little more stable financially for me I will get a #1 and have it all scratched up with golden chickens and so on...


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Tatume
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Cigar]
      #169712 - 16/10/10 10:35 PM

The Ruger #1, Browning B78, Browning 1885, and current production Winchester High Wall are all very well made, very strong guns. I have them in calibers from 223 Rem through 458 Win Mag, including classic American, British, Continental, and African calibers. They are fine guns.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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Tatume
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Grenadier]
      #169731 - 17/10/10 05:32 AM

Quote:

The Ruger is the only one of the three with a real safety. The other two only use a half-cock position for the hammer and the rifle can discharge if the hammer accidentally slips while moving it to the half cock position.




This is not true. The Browning/Winchester uses a fly in the trigger assembly. The rifle cannot discharge if the hammer slips while moving it to the half cock position. The design is as safe or safer than the Ruger #1.

Take care, Tom

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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Cigar
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Cigar]
      #169777 - 18/10/10 12:45 AM

Well; what are you going to do ?

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Grenadier
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Tatume]
      #169783 - 18/10/10 04:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The Ruger is the only one of the three with a real safety. The other two only use a half-cock position for the hammer and the rifle can discharge if the hammer accidentally slips while moving it to the half cock position.




This is not true. The Browning/Winchester uses a fly in the trigger assembly. The rifle cannot discharge if the hammer slips while moving it to the half cock position. The design is as safe or safer than the Ruger #1.

Take care, Tom




Well, yes and no. The modern versions do have a mechanism designed to prevent the rifle from firing when you are attempting to go to half cock as long as you properly control the hammer. But you have to pull the trigger to do this and if you get sloppy, are not careful, and the hammer happens to fall at full speed then the rifle will fire.

A true safety will prevent the rifle from firing when the trigger is pulled. You can place the Ruger on SAFE, pull the trigger, and it will not fire. There is no safety to place on SAFE with the Browning/Winchester and if you pull the trigger it will fire. Having to manipulate the trigger while simultaneously controlling the hammer is a poor substitute. That is why Marlin and Winchester added hammer blocking safeties to their lever action rifles.

I sometimes hunt with gloves, often in the rain, and occasionally in snow and ice. I don't like the idea of having to capture the hammer while I pull the trigger, what I consider an unsafe act, just to place the rifle into a safe state.

To best illustrate the difference between the Ruger safety and the Browning/Winchester half cock all you have to do is read the instructions in their respective manuals.

Ruger:
Quote:

The RUGERŪ NO. 1 rifle has a two-position, ambidextrous manual safety located atop the rear of the receiver. It is operated by sliding it fully backward and forward with the thumb.




Browning:
Quote:

Always make certain when lowering the hammer from full-cock to the half-cock position that your thumb is securely and squarely on the hammer and that the rifle is pointed in a safe direction. A wise practice to follow is to place the thumb extended over the hammer with the point of the thumb just over the "V" between the hammer and the firing pins so that the thumb can act as a cushion against accidental hammer fall, and at the same time, ease the hammer into the half-cock notch.

A little practice with an empty rifle will enable a person to become adept at using the thumb in this manner. Pull the hammer slightly rearward and with the thumb still controlling the hammer, squeeze the trigger and allow the hammer to slowly begin forward travel under the control of your thumb. When the hammer has passed the full-cock position, immediately remove your finger from the trigger. Carefully lower the hammer until it catches on the half-cock position.




It seems like the most positive safety on the Browning is to use your thumb to "act as a cushion against accidental hammer fall".

Nevertheless, some people are not put off by the lack of a true safety on the Browning and Winchesters and are are content with just the half cock.

--------------------
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Tatume
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Grenadier]
      #169791 - 18/10/10 07:18 AM

Quote:

But you have to pull the trigger to do this and if you get sloppy, are not careful, and the hammer happens to fall at full speed then the rifle will fire.




Under these conditions, the rifle will not fire.

Regardless of what the liability lawyers wrote into the owners manual, the Browning/Winchester mechanism will not fire no matter how you manipulate the hammer with your thumb. Try it yourself. Hold the hammer fully back, hold the trigger fully back, release the hammer as quickly as possible. The hammer will not contact the firing pin. The mechanism cannot be made to fire unless you release the hammer by pulling the trigger.

If you attempt to lower the hammer, and pull the trigger before you have the hammer under control, then the rifle will indeed fire. But, this is a case of the mechanism doing what it was designed to do, fire when the trigger is pulled. I do not consider this to be an exception. The malfunction is of the nut behind the buttplate.

Furthermore, when carrying the gun loaded, the hammer is down and has insufficient stored energy to fire a cartridge even if by some unimaginable event, the notch broke and released the hammer from the half-cock position. If the Ruger #1 is carried with a loaded chamber, the hammer is at full cock. If by some other unimaginable event the safety malfunctioned and the trigger was pulled, the hammer would fall with full force.

As a fan of both designs (I own many of each) I really see this as a non issue. But I insist that there is no safety disadvantage to the Browning/Winchester design. If you wish to believe the liability lawyers, that's your concern.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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Grenadier
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Tatume]
      #169793 - 18/10/10 09:08 AM

Yes, if manipulated as it is supposed to be it will not fire. And the 1885 is a good bit better than the B78 in that regard. But on a cold, wet day with half frozen fingers, if you poke your finger into the trigger guard in preparation to putting the rifle on half cock you can inadvertently pull the trigger before getting the hammer back. Or, if you pull the hammer back and just as you are about to pull the trigger the hammer slips from your rain-soaked glove just before the trigger moves, then it will fire. Dry firing at home or working the action at the shooting range is not the same as handling the firearm in the woods, especially during inclement weather. Because you have to manipulate and coordinate the movements of both the hammer and the trigger to get the rifle to half cock there is always the possibility that you can accidentally do it wrong. Then it will do exactly as you say it is designed to do, "the rifle will indeed fire". That is why Browning advises you to put your thumb between the hammer and the firing pin before attempting to go to half cock.

I prefer a true safety that I can apply without going anywhere near the trigger. That is why in this X-vs-Y-vs-Z post I explained that I consider the Ruger's safety a plus for the Ruger. But again, some people are content with the just half cock. If that describes you then fine.

--------------------
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Tatume
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: Grenadier]
      #169794 - 18/10/10 11:45 AM

I too prefer a true safety that I can apply without going anywhere near the trigger. That safety is between my ears. For this reason, I can safely hunt on the coldest, wettest of days, with either a Ruger #1 or a Winchester High Wall, or more often, a muzzleloading rifle. The relative safety of the Ruger #1 versus the Winchester High Wall is moot.

Thanks for the discussion.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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tinker
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Re: HELP!: Browning 78 vs Browning 1885 vs Ruger #1? [Re: poprivit]
      #169796 - 18/10/10 12:39 PM

Hey Murphy-

Bring that .375 up here next time you're in the valley.

On these rifles, I'm comfortable with all of them.
My selection process would have more to do with finding the most accurate (individual) rifle I could find inside my budget -- second consideration would then be whichever (individual) rifle looked and felt the best in my hands.

I've been raised with guns and rifles with exposed hammers, my favorite rifles have external hammers.
I really like the modern Winchester/Browning copies and I've shot some very accurate ones too.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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