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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Long Range Shooting
      #16871 - 19/07/04 05:34 AM

Just a simple question.

We are all aware of all the new Superboomers and all the claims about how flat shooting they are and how much farther they are accurate than the older cartridges. While most of this is just hype and not lodged in reality it raises a question as to what distance hunting just becomes long range target practice.

I don't have a problem with people who want to shoot an animal at 600 plus yards, if they are part of the 2% that can actually kill an animal at that distance, but is it still hunting or just shooting?

What about the guys with the .50BMGs who want to shoot at 1000 yards? Are they hunters or target shooters. Or are they just lazy?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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**DONOTDELETE**





Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #16877 - 19/07/04 08:44 AM

Mick,

I think anyone who has a scope sighted high velocity rifle and who has the rifle bedded and perhaps rebarreled with a match grade barrel and so on....has crossed or is about cross over the line between hunting and shooting.

Some might say they do that to the rifle to increase the chances of a good hit but of course the hunting alternative is to get closer.

And by the way, the gap from an open sighted 30/30, 45/70 etc. to a an accurate scope sighted 270, 7mm Rem or 300 Winchester is many many times greater than it is from those calibres to the 300 Ultra, 30/378, 338 Ultra and 338/378

Mike

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DPhillips
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #16881 - 19/07/04 09:56 AM

I've seen this bandied about across several different forums now. I honestly don't have answer, but I do have a few thoughts I would like to share.

First, I believe we should do whatever we can to ensure a quick and humane kill. If that means getting close enough for your shooting ability, handcrafting your loads for accuracy that makes kills more certain, or prepping your rifle for great accuracy, I believe we should do what we can.

I think the break between hunting and shooting begins when the hunter/shooter stops trying to get close. No, I don't have a definition of close. If you can stalk closer to your quarry where the bullets trajectory or windrift eliminates consideration, but don't, I believe you have just become a shooter instead of a hunter.

Many of the long distance "hunters" we've heard from on other websites state they shoot a "spotting shot" right before making corrections and attempting to take game. That seems to me to be target practicing with live animals. Not a real hunt to me.

Now, I guess it may be hypocritical to say, but if you have stalked and worked your way as close to animal as you can (have actually tried to get as close as possible) and the animal is standing in the open within your shooting capability without having to shoot a spotting shot or some 25 MOA adjustment to your scope bases and scope, I would consider that hunting. If it's out of the range you are comfortable with, go back to camp and try another day. That's hunting.

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Rustbucket
.224 member


Reged: 25/04/04
Posts: 13
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #17182 - 26/07/04 01:19 AM

I have read some of the articles on long range shooting. To me it is a cross-over between hunting and bench-rest shooting, with the emphasis on probably too many expensive toys. Some of those folks take two spotting scopes and turn them into a "binocular". ALso, after spotting the quarry about a 1,000 yards or more away, they set up their shooting bench, take out their range finder, dial in the range, and shoot their 30# rifles (usually very accurately too). They also rarely get out of their vehicles, because of all their gear.

To me this is love of gizmos, and lack of tracking. Humping up the hills and being able to see other sign, figuring out the game sign, and "feeling the outside" is more important too me than using my gizmos to make a 1,200 yard kill. A long range kill is very technical and diffacult, but I will stick to tracking and and humping.

A good ananlogy would be: Spearfishing vs Technical deep diving.

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iqbal
resigned as a member


Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #17233 - 27/07/04 12:43 AM

What fun is there in hunting when you do not have to walk,climb a mountain or crawl in the forest and get to within a 100 yards of the animal to shoot.You could train a monkey to sit in a vehicle and take shots at a 1000 yards and maybe he would hit something.

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Rustbucket
.224 member


Reged: 25/04/04
Posts: 13
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: iqbal]
      #17266 - 27/07/04 01:16 PM

The long range "Hunting" is still very precise and technical from what I have read. Probably too technical and the "feet on the earth" seems to have lost out to a very large degree. Maybe this "The Virtual Hunt" style?

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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #17864 - 11/08/04 11:59 PM

There is no shortage of long range cartridges.

Where are the long-range hunters?

ADay

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Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #17884 - 12/08/04 07:55 AM

This is the same old stuff, trying to impose your definition of what constitutes right and wrong on everyone else. You just have to do what you think is right.

I wouldn't be surprised that for every elk that is shot dead at 500 yards there are 500 wounded ones that get away.

I figure that anyone that uses a scope for elephant hunting is just taking target pratice.

But it is different strokes for different folks.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: Will]
      #18276 - 21/08/04 07:14 AM

interesting... hunting is an word that invokes a process, a series of actions, that, in ideal circumstances lead to a kill... the goal of the hunter is to dispatch the hunted.

how one approaches this may vary, but I think think we can all say that the hunter that does more to ensure he is successful, and reduce the chance of wasted/wounded game... is the better hunter.

with that in mind, there are a host of variables that must be sorted, and it becomes difficult to say what is wrong. killing at extended distances can be done reliably and safely, and humanely.... however, it is just as difficult to kill at great distances reliably, safely, and humanely as it is to learn to get closer and take a high-percentage shot.


also, my primary rifle has been "rebarreled" (from 8mm Mauser!), bedded, and has a scope on it... and while it is not a "high" velocity cartridge by most standards.... using one definitinon listed above would classify my $500 (ok ok, I had the safety done, its $600 now) as something used by a "shooter" and not a "hunter"


ummmmmm


riiiight.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2399
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #18283 - 21/08/04 11:10 AM

...and couldn't the archer make the same argument about the rifle hunter that the rifle hunter makes about the long range hunter.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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mudbug
.275 member


Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 51
Loc: U.S.A/Wyo.,Ak.&La./H.K.&P.R.C.
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: DoubleD]
      #18611 - 29/08/04 06:32 PM

Or the 'spear chunker' about the archer. Dphillips and Will said it all imho.

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Siskiyous6
.275 member


Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Del Norte COunty, CA
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #21117 - 22/11/04 04:46 PM

Enough with relativism.

Any hunting shot with a modern rifle (Above 2400FPS) beyond 150 yards is long range. Older technologies have lesser capabilities. Unskilled shooters may need to limit themselves even further.

The super magnums make it easier to eliminate the guesswork regarding trajectory beyond 150 yards, but almost all of the other variables stay constant. They really shine with heavy bullets that lessen the winds influence some.

That said, worry about your capabilities, and less about your neighbor's actions, and you will enjoy this sport much more.

If you have to ask what long range is, it is probably shorter for you than for the guy who already knows the answer to this question.

I have a 375 yard rifle range and a 300 Weatherby. I practice. I think 150 yards is a long way even shooting prone.

Never forget, one man's long range is another man's long shot. We should not be afraid to shoot at long range, but we should never risk game to a long shot.

--------------------
Pass it on!

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vapodog
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/04
Posts: 237
Loc: Nebraska USA
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: Siskiyous6]
      #23072 - 01/01/05 11:31 AM

In reply to:

Many of the long distance "hunters" we've heard from on other websites state they shoot a "spotting shot" right before making corrections and attempting to take game



Think about this!!!!! Think real hard and long..... When was the last time you saw your bullet hit in the woods or grasslands at 600 yards? need I say more?

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ATHiker07
.275 member


Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 51
Loc: Florida
Re: Long Range Shooting [Re: mickey]
      #23585 - 07/01/05 01:09 AM

I annually hunt property in Wyoming for antelope in the Shirley basin. Very flat and extremely little cover, so shots are usually 350 to 500 yards depending on how tolerant the goats are. I must say that it's fun but not as rewarding as stalking for an hour to get a shot. This year I have decided to seek other game in a more traditional manner for the enjoyment of the hunt...not the shot.

--------------------
Take a child hunting, they are the future of our sport!

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