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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Scope for Dodd Hughes Hagn
      #168440 - 25/09/10 09:33 PM

Hi all, you will probably have seen the pics of the Hagn Dodd Hughes in progress and I have a query. Calibre is .30-06, I told him to get me a plain 4x Schmibt and Bender fixed scope. He has sent me a mssg saying the eye relief is not enough so I will have to get either a Swarovski or Leupold with 4.75" eye relief. This puzzles me, my .375 has a S&B 1.1-4 x 24 I think and eye relief is fine, stock is 14 7/8". OK stock on single shot is 14.375" from memory. Any thoughts and if I do get a Swarozski, what model, thinking 2-6x mag with a 32 end, donīt really want to go to 40+, looks a bit off I think, thx in advance, Mike

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Scope for Dodd Hughes Hagn [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #168442 - 25/09/10 09:37 PM


Hi Mike,

S&B, S&B, S&B

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Scope for Dodd Hughes Hagn [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #168451 - 26/09/10 01:37 AM

Mike, that is a very common situation with single shot rifles. I took a bit of criticism about the scope hanging off the back of my 300H&H. What people don't realize is that when you make a single shot with a decent length of pull and place the scope where it will be for proper eye relief then there is no place to attach the rear scope ring to the receiver.



Ruger rifles are made with a short length of pull - only 13.5". The photo above is what happened when the shooter lengthened is stock. His problem would have been compounded if his scope had an objective bell.

I once owned a custom built Ruger that had a Leupold 1.75X-7X scope on it. I couldn't force my head far enough forward to use it on anything higher than 1.75X and even then it was uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, scopes are only made with relief for use on bolt rifles, shotguns, or pistols. None of those work right for a single shot of decent butt length. If one of the scope companies made a scope with proper relief it would become THE scope to install on a single shot.

You are left with few choices. You can use a scope with a long tube, extender rings, or with both rings mounted far forward. Alternatively, you can just keep the length of pull short, choosing aesthetics over proper fit.

I sent H&H two scopes with the idea of being able to switch them out as needed. One was a 10X and the other a 4X. The 4X couldn't be made to fit if mounts were made for the 10X so I went with just one scope. H&H suggested I use a Swarovski but I wanted a 1" tube with fixed power and not a 30mm tube with variable power. As it was, H&H had to go through some hair pulling to make it work and I owe somebody a lot of beer.

For me the guiding principles were:
  • Stock dimensions for use with iron sights, my primary sights. That meant fit with a scope would not be perfect.
  • With iron sights for out to 100 yards or so, I wanted a scope for occasional use that could extend that distance significantly when needed. For me that meant at least 6X but 10X would be better.
  • Attachment as required for a special order Schmidt Bender PM scope. (Custom reticle and adjustments calibrated for 300H&H)
  • Clean lines with the scope removed. No large or protruding bases left behind
  • Proper length of pull, about 15" for me - looks be damned.

I suggest you consider what your priorities are and go from there.

It looks like a nice rifle no matter what you decide for a scope.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Scope for Dodd Hughes Hagn [Re: Grenadier]
      #168453 - 26/09/10 02:21 AM

Wow ! I had never considered this ! OK, the length of pull is set on the custom stock and it is 14 3/8 or 14 1/2 which fits me, so what the hell scope can I buy that will work eye relief wise. Grenadier, can you tell me why the scope on my Holland (short receiver like a single shot, or am I wrong ?) should not work on the Hagn ? Maybe the single shot is an inch shorter at least and thus compromises the scope ? A whole question opens here but I used a Ruger No.1 in .30-06 last year in SA with a crappy Bushnell on it (and it was old !) and never had an issue ??, thx in advance, Mike

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Grenadier
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Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Scope for Dodd Hughes Hagn [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #168458 - 26/09/10 03:08 AM

Mike,

Last question first. Unless the Ruger No.1 you used was altered, the length of pull was probably just a tad under 13-1/2". I have been told that it is not uncommon for them to come from the factory closer to 13-1/4".

On your Holland with the short receiver, assuming you are talking about a magazine rifle, the rear scope mount can go on the rear bridge. Now look again at the photo of the Ruger above. Where would you place that rear scope mount? It is a requirement to place the rings forward that keeps the scope from being pushed back to your eye within those rings. The guy who owns the Ruger above was complaining that he couldn't push the scope any further back in the rings.

If you get someone to help you then you can do the following. Take a rifle that fits you well and take a firing position with it. Put your head and eye in a comfortable spot - you can even do it with your eyes closed. Then have your assistant measure the distance from the rear of the butt stock to the position of your eye. Add the eye relief of the scope you are considering to that. It will probably come to around 12-12.5". It will provide you with a distance from the rear of the stock to the rear of the scope. Now, you can lay your rifle down, set the scope above it, ensuring that it is the proper distance from the butt, and visualize the mount and ring requirements. You will find that many scope/ring combinations just don't work because either the scope adjustment mechanism or the bell of the scope gets in the way.

H&H recommended I use the Swarovski Z6 because they offer one version of the 1-6x24 with an eye relief of 4.72". The rifle would have looked better with that scope mounted and, if they had been building me a .375 or larger, I would have gone that way. But for a .300 that would only have the scope mounted for occasional use in very open country I chose a 10x42. Also, moving the scope forward puts the large ocular portion over the loading area and I was concerned it would make it awkward to load. I had to make compromises. I wanted a 1" scope tube and that was what my 4X used but the 10X is a 30mm. Still, it's a better alternative to the 34mm scopes in the rest of the SB PM line.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Scope for Dodd Hughes Hagn [Re: Grenadier]
      #168590 - 27/09/10 06:25 PM

I wonder whether the Blaser style scope mounts (either Blaser's own or those from Apel) wouldn't be an effective solution for single shots? If so it might allow a few more options for scope selection.
On scopes, I have posted before that I have been pestering Swarovski to make a Z6 1-6x32 or 36 and have been told that the design engineers will be discussing it at the next market board meeting in October. I'm not holding my breath but my wallet is braced!

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