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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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radin
.275 member


Reged: 04/08/10
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
What scope wnt with these mounts ?
      #168129 - 21/09/10 09:56 AM

I have a pair of 1887 vintage Alex Henry double rifles and one has quick release scope mounts . I am unable to find anyone local to me that has any idea of who manufactured the mounts nor scope . I will try to attach a photo of the mounts . Thank you Jim [image]http://s854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/radinej/Alex%20Henry/[/image]

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: radin]
      #168137 - 21/09/10 01:59 PM

Try using this link.

http://s854.photobucket.com/albums/ab101/radinej/Alex%20Henry/

I have a D/R with this style QD bases also. But like you I hav no idea who made them. I haven't found anyone else til now that had them.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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radin
.275 member


Reged: 04/08/10
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: AkMike]
      #168156 - 21/09/10 07:55 PM

Thanks for the link . The mounts a completely unmarked , appear to be well machined into the ribs . The patina matches that of the barrels . The initial purchaser of the rifles was Harry Panmore Gordon in 18 July 1887 and he passed in about 1906 . I'm not sure of the rest of their path . There is a Ward label placed on the outside of the case but is in very poor shape as to be unreadable . I'm not sure when the mounts were added but the rifles have very few handling and usage dings. Jim

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1794
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: radin]
      #168173 - 22/09/10 01:40 AM

These are bases for a Austrian "Wiener Schnaeppermontage" = Vienna style snap-on-mount, often called "Springer mount" after the well-known Vienna gunmaker, see the drawing from Lampel/Mahrholdt:"Waffenlexikon".

These mounts were quite popular in pre-WW2 Austria, but obsolete by now. They are often seen in a three-legged version on Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles. More often than not they were used to mount 2x or 4x Austrian Kahles steel tube s copes, using soldered-on half rings. Little hope finding a scope and rings to fit your bases, as these mounts were apparently handmade by individual gunsmithes.
Here are two 4x Kahles scopes with such mounts for Mannlicher-Schoenauers




--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by CptCurl (23/09/10 10:32 AM)

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radin
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Reged: 04/08/10
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: kuduae]
      #168207 - 22/09/10 08:45 AM

Thank you thank you thank you , I have not been able to find any of this information . Would this have been available pre WW 1 ? Jim

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radin
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Reged: 04/08/10
Posts: 94
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Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: radin]
      #168215 - 22/09/10 11:21 AM

Folks ,

My last question is whether anyone out there has a set of these scope mounts and would like to sell them ? With or without a scope or knows where one could be purchased to complete my DR . Thanks , Jim

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radin
.275 member


Reged: 04/08/10
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: radin]
      #168216 - 22/09/10 11:23 AM

Kuduae ,

Are these mount still available in Germany ? Jim

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: radin]
      #168225 - 22/09/10 02:57 PM

Yes those are the scope mounts I'd like to get also!


Kuduae. Thank you so very much for this information!

Danke!!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1794
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: AkMike]
      #168257 - 23/09/10 05:56 AM

Hi radin, to answer your many questions, the good news first:
Yes, the 22mm tube Kahles Mignon scopes, top in my photo, were available before WW1, the 26mm Heliavier, below, came about 1920.
End of the good news!
As I wrote before, the Wiener snap mounts were handcrafted one by one by individual gunsmithes. Not two are really alike and nothing is interchangeable! As they came with rings soldered to the scope's steel tube, you need a gunsmith able to completely disassemble the scope and resolder the "rings" if you want to adapt the mounts to a different base length. Such people are hard to find nowadays even in Europe. I have never seen clamping rings on these mounts.To further complicate the situation, on your Henry the bases are mounted the other way around than usually seen: as you may see in the above drawing and my photo, the "hook-under plate" was usually mounted at the rear, the "horns" for the snap fasteners at the front end. As the locking foot is usually fitted to the larger objective bell and the rear foot to the tube, it is impossible to simply exchange positions.
These mounts were never popular in Germany, Germans preferring claw mounts from the start, so you have to look in Austria. As the Austrians changed over to clawmounts (with different dimensions, of course!) in the 1930s, the Vienna snap mounts are completely obsolete and any spares have to be custom made by file, as the originals were.
If you ever find a scope+mount that fits your bases, it is probably the one that originally belonged to your rifle!

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1794
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: kuduae]
      #168259 - 23/09/10 06:26 AM





My solution to such a problem, trying to keep a gun as original as possible: I carefully remove the unuseable original bases and store them away to be able to put them back on for collector's purposes. then I file bases, fi Warne style, from some steel and fit them into the original recesses. Now I am able to mount any modern or vintage scope with available rings. As an example, here is a pre-WW1 Voigdlaender 3x long eye-relief scope mounted with available semi-modern rings on my Haenel M1900, likely in the original position.




--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by CptCurl (23/09/10 10:33 AM)

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radin
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Reged: 04/08/10
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: kuduae]
      #168275 - 23/09/10 12:05 PM

Kuduae ,

Thank you for all the information . I suppose it was a bit of wishful thinking about rings and scope for the old mounts . So goes the dream . Jim

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: radin]
      #172979 - 12/12/10 08:19 PM

I just stumbled across this fine rifle with these style of mounts for everyone to drool over.

http://www.hallowellco.com/johann_springer%208x57.htm

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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A10ACN
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Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
Loc: USA
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: AkMike]
      #172980 - 12/12/10 08:36 PM

That is quite possibly the best looking scoped DR I've laid eyes on. Certainly top three. Great lines, superlative craftsmanship. How about that case? A case actually properly built for a scoped DR with no add-ons or excess. Wonder if it came with the rifle or was built in UK? Nice package.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: A10ACN]
      #172999 - 13/12/10 06:19 AM

And it's for sale!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
Posts: 1195
Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: AkMike]
      #173030 - 13/12/10 02:10 PM

nice.......

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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radin
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Reged: 04/08/10
Posts: 94
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: What scope wnt with these mounts ? [Re: bwananelson]
      #173593 - 22/12/10 09:20 AM

Beautiful double . The scope mounts are certainly very similar to the mounts on my Alex Henry . Only thing nicer would be the Springer mounts for the poor Henry . Jim

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