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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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CptCurlAdministrator
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1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel
      #167581 - 11/09/10 09:58 PM

It has taken me a while to snap a few photos. These are not particularly good photography, but here's a look at the M1903 I recently bought:



















































This rifle, proofed in 1908, was a special order with a 55cm (21 5/8") barrel. It is virtually mint, aside from the rubs on the buttplate, and may be unfired since proof. The bolt shows almost no rubs. It's so cherry it's scary.

I have a full compliment of loading dies, brass, and bullets. So far I haven't even loaded ammo. I suppose I'll shoot it, but I'll have to build up my courage.

The rifle came to me from William Larkin Moore & Sons. I have the greatest respect for that company and the Moore family. I have done business with them for 15 years or so. Every transaction has been perfect. This rifle was described conservatively, and my impression when it arrived was that its condition is better than I expected.

Curl

Edited to correct my faulty metric measure!



Edited by CptCurl (12/09/10 06:27 AM)

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kamilaroi
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #167583 - 11/09/10 10:13 PM

Very nice! It's lucky that the cleaning rod is original as I needed a repro one made. BTW appears not exposed to a tropical climate as the varnish finish bubbles over time.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: kamilaroi]
      #167585 - 11/09/10 10:46 PM

P.S.

Yesterday I did tap a lead sinker into the muzzle to get a measurement. Looks pretty typical of a M1903 of this period - 0.2675".



Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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malco
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #167594 - 12/09/10 12:33 AM

Curl--
My buddy just bought an 03 carbine that was found rolled up in a carpet in a repo'd house in Missouri, apparently had been there for decades. Not pristine like yours, but a nice clean using rifle. We loaded up some downrated loads with Norma 204, and it shoots like a dream! With your bore size, I think you'll be fine loading the Hornady .264 RN and letting the undersized bullet slug itself up, as discussed in a prior post. Have fun with it, and fear not--this rifle wants to be fired!

Malcolm

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: malco]
      #167600 - 12/09/10 12:57 AM

I must say, I like my extra 10cm of barrel.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #167603 - 12/09/10 01:04 AM

Curl, damnation your M-S is nice.

Well done on the purchase.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: NitroX]
      #167604 - 12/09/10 03:09 AM

Quote:

Well done on the purchase.



Thanks John. If you knew what I paid you might qualify your statement.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Phillip
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #167605 - 12/09/10 03:58 AM

Very nice! 1 rare find!I have only seen one other. Contact me when it comes up for sale!!

--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


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xausa
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 60mm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #167610 - 12/09/10 06:12 AM

Curl,

Do the math: 55mm=2 1/6"

Bill

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: xausa]
      #167611 - 12/09/10 06:36 AM

Oooooooops!

I just never was so good at that French type of measure!

The rifle barrel is really 55cm. I swear!





Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Ben
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #167618 - 12/09/10 09:02 AM

Really nice, Curl.

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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: Ben]
      #167619 - 12/09/10 09:17 AM

Hi Curl,

Another "Quality" pick up, at least we all know it has gone to a good home. You are one lucky SOB.

Cheers,

Jeff

.

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rigbymauser
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #167651 - 12/09/10 10:52 PM


Its fine pickup Cap`n.

These guns do like your do every now and then do popup overhere...Nobody wants èm( which I don`t understand). I always buy a vintage gun, when in fine condition like yours.

Thanks for sharing.:LOL

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FATBOY404
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: rigbymauser]
      #167698 - 13/09/10 08:44 PM

You have done very well indeed.

I dream of comeing onto a deceaced estate with a couple of firearms like that in them.

Neale.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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Farkey
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: FATBOY404]
      #167709 - 13/09/10 11:49 PM

Its truly beautiful and such a rare fine! BTW- My Mannlicher in the other post has the same long barrel length as yours. http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=160213&an=0&page=0#Post160213









.

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Otto
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: Farkey]
      #167760 - 14/09/10 10:48 PM

My 1903 tumbles all .264 bullets under 160gr, and is only "acceptable" with .264 160s. Then I read my 1950s vintage NRA "Reloader's Guide" wherein the groove diameter for M/S 6.5 rifles is listed as .268". I got some 160gr Hornady's that measure .268", and my so-so carbine became a tackdriver. Curl, your pristine bore slugging .2675" confirms my experience. BTW, when loading .268" bullets, drop the powder charge 5 gr and work up again.

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malco
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: Otto]
      #167780 - 15/09/10 11:59 AM

Hi Otto--
Do you know the bore dimension in your rifle? Mine is larger than .264, but shoots the .264 160 Hornady fine and doesn't have accuracy trouble with 140 gr. SP Hornadys, let alone tumble the bullet. It definitely doesn't feed the 140 as well. I still maintain that Curl should start with the .264 RN and see how it works, holding the Carcano bullet in reserve as a fallback. That said, thanks for posting on your experience--the great thing about the 'net is the ability to share with the rest of us, and all of this trial-and-error helps!
Best,
Malcolm

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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: malco]
      #174364 - 29/01/11 05:44 AM

My 1928 6,5x54 M-S carbine with 18" / 46cm barrel shoots all bullet weights equally well. My 1925 8x56 M-S comes with the special order 23,5/8" / 60cm barrel and I've only shot one bullet type in it, (which is accurate too). The wood is noticably thin in cross section, perhaps to offset the extra weight / length ? My 1927 9,5x57 M-S take-down rifle has a 23,7/8" / 60.8cm barrel. I therefore assume the special order, full-stocked longer barrel on the 8x56 M-S is just the rifle barrel given the Stuetzen treatment.

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nhdblfan
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #174763 - 03/02/11 10:35 AM

Super mint 1903 Curl,
I doubt its even been fired,that bolt face looks untouched.Love the cleaning rod bonus.Only bought a very few that still had them in that trap door.Last one was years ago at a small PA gun show,$700 for a fairly minty (but not near as nice as yours ) 1903 with the cleaning rods in the butt.

Super gun,see the M/S bug has bitten you too now !

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: nhdblfan]
      #184453 - 23/06/11 11:34 PM

I'm in need of the experience and wisdom of the membership.

Thinking about actually shooting my M1903, the subject of this thread. I have to admit I've been thoroughly intimidated by the "mint" condition of this rifle and have let it sit in the safe since buying it. I have a full compliment of reloading accessories and supplies for it but haven't done anything! But dammit, it was made to shoot.

Question: Is there anything to be done with the bedding of these rifles? I can't say I'm impressed with what I see. It doesn't have a nice recoil shoulder like a Mauser or other "modern" bolt gun. Do they bed against the magazine housing? Need I fear stock splitting?????

This is just the beginning. If there are other potential problems please educate me. I'm a babe in the woods in regard to M-S rifles.

Thannks,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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kuduae
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #184476 - 24/06/11 07:07 AM

Stock bedding is sometimes a problem with the old Mannlicher-Schoenauers. Once a friend had obtained a near mint M08 in 8x56M-Sch of pre-WW1 vintage. He complained to me the thing would not shoot accurately with any load he had concocted, wandering zero, flyers and such problems. I then asked him: "Did it ever come to your mind: Maybe that rifle is in such a pristine, rarely used condition after 80+ years because it was a bum shooter from the start and relegated to the rear corner of a gun cabinet, without being ever used for hunting?" Only some time later, after experiencing the same problems with another M-Sch, I found out about a possible reason.
About 1900 little was known about the proper bedding of bolt-action rifles among gunsmiths.
The M-Sch M03, 05, 08 and 1910 all share that tiny excuse for a recoil lug, inherited from the M88 commission action. On the military rifles, this abutted against either a contoured steel stock crossbolt or a steel plate inletted into the stock, but on most commercial Mannlichers this feature was omitted. This rarely causes problems with the low-recoiling 6.5x54 M03, but heavily loaded 9.5x57 M10s sometimes shoot themselves out of their stocks after some use. My remedy on my old junk pile escapee M1910: I filed an internal recoil plate, contoured to fit the receiver bottom, inletted and glass bedded behind the recoil lug to take the recoil. No problems so far.



Finally, on the 30-06 M1924 and the M1925 actions Steyr added a substantial square recoil lug to the receiver, about the same size as on the Mauser M98, but sometimes they did not bed this properly. FI, when I got my 30-06 M1924, a leftover Sequoia model, serial # 299, with original factory-mounted 4x Kahles scope, it showed some stock dings and bruises from careless storing, but otherwise apparently was rarely used.



Shooting it for the first time, it produced about 5" patterns, so something was wrong. After disassembly I noted the substantial recoil lug was hanging in the air, without contact to the stock. Recoil was taken by the lower end of the rear magazine wall, that acted like a strong spring, putting different tension on the barrel/stock relation from shot to shot. Obviously it had left the factory this way. Again, glass bedding the recoil lug and relieving the mag-stock contact solved the problem.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: kuduae]
      #184485 - 24/06/11 08:08 AM

Kuduae,

What you have said is exactly what is on my mind. I very well know what should be done for the sake of accuracy and for the sake of keeping the stock from splitting. Were this a well-used specimen I would already have done what you mention without hesitation. I am cursed with too pristine a specimen. What to do. . . . What to do....

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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tinker
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: CptCurl]
      #184497 - 24/06/11 03:06 PM

Curl-

I'm in too much shock at the overall condition to be any use in your stock-bedding rumination.

Damn that thing looks sweet.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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xausa
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: tinker]
      #184523 - 25/06/11 12:26 AM

Curl,

Before glass bedding was discovered/invented, the standard accuracy treatment consisted of shimming. A shim or shims was/were installed in the recoil lug recess in the stock until total contact between lug and stock was achieved.

Depending on the thickness required to get the recoil lug to contact, shims cut from such sources as aluminum soft drink/beer cans and from the aluminum tops of sardine cans can proove useful.

Brass shim stock is available in assorted thicknesses, but does not do as well as aluminum when used in contact with wood, since it tends to corrode.

Shimming should not alter the pristine nature of your acquisition at all.

Bill

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DarylS
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Re: 1903 Full Stock Special Order 55cm Barrel [Re: xausa]
      #184531 - 25/06/11 01:33 AM

That's pretty nice, Curl. At only .00025" oversize per side, I'd probably shoot the .268" Hornady 160gr. made for the Carcano (as long as they chamber OK for neck fit).

Say, maybe you should send it up to me so I can work up some loads for you? I'll be gentle as I break her in.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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