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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
anothe one done
      #167244 - 05/09/10 10:57 AM

This rifle is sold, but I thought I'd share the pictures, so the readers could enjoy it too.













Edited by CptCurl (09/09/10 08:03 PM)


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: anothe one done [Re: szihn]
      #167245 - 05/09/10 11:02 AM

Wonderful looking rifle. Can you please tell us the details?

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Ben
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: anothe one done [Re: 500grains]
      #167248 - 05/09/10 11:57 AM

Very nice, indeed.

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: anothe one done [Re: Ben]
      #167249 - 05/09/10 12:14 PM

OK..details;

It's got a 44 inch long swamped barrel, and is 62 caliber. It's sights are regulated to place its shots at 75 yards. It used 140 grains of 3f powder with a patched round ball.

The lock is a left hand L&R Durs Egg, reworked by me for tighter tolerances and fast lock time. I used Davis double set triggers.

The stock is made from Sugar maple cut in Tennessee by Freddie Harrison in 1988. The patch box lid is sliding wood, dovetailed into the butt, and made from a piece of the same blank.

The mounts are all brass, and the wire inlay is sliver.

The trigger guard and the rod pipes are commercial castings, but I hand made the butt plate and the side plate.



Ummmmmmm. ----- I am running out of things to tell you.
Any other questions?
I’ll be happy to answer.

Edited by szihn (05/09/10 12:15 PM)


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: anothe one done [Re: szihn]
      #167250 - 05/09/10 12:59 PM

What is a "swamped" barrel?

And I am curious about the caliber. I presume .50 cal is considered sufficient for deer, so is this rifle intended for larger game? Or did the customer simply prefer a larger bore?

I am also wondering if you have made .75 calibers, rifled or not, like the old Brown Bess muskets. And how would their performance compare to .62. Is a lot of range or accuracy lost?


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: anothe one done [Re: 500grains]
      #167258 - 05/09/10 02:43 PM

A swamped barrel is one that tapers from breach towards the muzzle, but then flairs again for the last 8-10 inches.

And yes, a 62 is for bigger game, but of course can be used on smaller game too. A 12 gage slug is not thought of as big in many places, but they are about 70 cal.

A 62 flintlock such as this one will throw a 320 grain ball at about 1800 FPS. It kills VERY well, and when cast from a hard lead alloy, it will exit American Bison and Moose in nearly every case on quartering and broadside shots.

Accuracy in not dependant on caliber at all. It’s just a function of quality of the barrel, and how well the barrel is inlet. All Round Balls have the same Sectional Density. The B.C. goes up some as they get bigger.
So range is a function of velocity.
It’s easy to get about 1850 FPS out of round balls from 22 cal up to about 66 cal. So the 66 will shoot flatter then the smaller calibers because it’s BC is higher.

Like with shot, a 12 gage has better range with #2 lead shot then it does with #8 lead shot, even when both exit the muzzle at the same speed. Big balls retain velocity better then little ones.

Now when we get to about 66 cal, the issue get more complex. Recoil becomes a factor.

So some “big rifles” are sot at slower speeds then smaller ones, but that because of comfort, not because the big ones could not fire such a load. The shooters can't handle such loads.

But lets’ look at physics;
A 600 Nitro will fire a 900 grain bullet at about 1900 FPS. From a 16 pound double rifle the recoil is noteworthy.

An 8 bore muzzleloader can be loaded to fire a 875 grain ball at 1850. Only 50 FPS less, and only 25 grains less bullet.
But an average 8 bore rifle will only weigh 11 pounds!
So we load them so as to be useful, not to gain velocity

If we look at a 4 bore, we now have 1750 grains of lead. At 1000 FPS the recoil looks like this;


This man is 5 foot 9 inches tall, and weighs 170 pounds The rifle weight 17 pounds 4 ounces and was loaded with 375 grains of powder that’s only 900 FPS It still kicks.

With 475 grains of powder it will achieve about 1350 fps Recoil is more then what you see here with a 475 grain charge.
At 1850 FPS it would be very close to a 600 double, if you pulled BOTH triggers at one time.
I think I make the point………….

I have made a lot of 62 cal rifles. Recoil is not bad at all with 150 grain charges.
A 66 cal will use about 165 grains to 175 grains
A 72 cal will use 180 to 200

An 8 bore uses charges of about 325 grains.

4 bores use what ever the shooter can handle starting with about 300 and going up to the human limit of the shooter.
A 2 bore is a REAL mans gun.. Here’s the ‘skinny end’ of one.

That's my hand. I have average size hands.
Here's the rifle. I made it for "big Dog" on this site.




I have only made this one 2 bore. My old apprentice Colin Srolzer has made more true 2 bores than any one I know of, in the last 200 years, and that’s still only 3 rifles. He posts on this site from time to time.

But, to answer the questions,
#1 yes, I will make about anything you can ask for if it loads from the muzzle,
and #2 the range is limited by how much recoil you can take on the big guns, and how tall you want to make the rear sight. Keep in mind that muzzleloading cannon have range measured in thousands of yard, and they are all effectively the same kind of gun as a sporting rifle, but made a lot bigger.

Edited by CptCurl (09/09/10 08:04 PM)


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gunbug
.275 member


Reged: 14/01/05
Posts: 91
Loc: british columbia
Re: anothe one done [Re: szihn]
      #167306 - 06/09/10 11:02 AM

Steve you are amazing plus the info on real bigbores was very interesting but i will stay with my 50 and 54. Dan

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: anothe one done [Re: gunbug]
      #167307 - 06/09/10 12:40 PM

I make them Dan, but for other folks. I personally have little use for the 10 bore or bigger. I am not going to Africa again, so I like to use my 62 for everything.

I am 100% satisfied with my 62 and I live in elk/moose country. Elk are common here like white tail deer are most other places. I have killed elk, moose deer and antelope with it.
I made one for a friend a few years ago, and he killed 17 different animals in Africa up to Eland. Worked like a charm.

So I think a 62 is a fine caliber for game up to about 1500 pounds, and can be used on game up to 2000 pounds if you shoot well.
The old "standard" of the British empire (if any could be called standard" was the "1 ounce gun" A 16 bore rifle is a very good all around caliber for large game.
Your 50s and 54s are 100% fine for any deer size game in the world, and plenty of elk are killed here every year with 54s too.

I may someday build a 12 bore for myself, but not for African hunting. Just a good English style big bore, but set up with sights to work with a fairly low velocity load. A 12 bore ball will weight about 500 to 530 grains depending on what size I end up using. That's about 1 1/4 OZ Now if I load to 1200 FPS it's not going to be any different then the old 12 gauge slug loads of the 1960s, but it will be a LOT more accurate.
Should be a wonderful hunting arm. I do enjoy the elegance and handling of the good British style arms of the 1850-1870 era.
I also love the handling of the find German Jaeger rifles.
Now that I think of it, I also love the handling of American Longrifles…..
Heck…….............I like them all.


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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: anothe one done [Re: szihn]
      #167317 - 06/09/10 06:27 PM

That was an enjoyable,informative and authoritative read.

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: anothe one done [Re: gryphon]
      #167322 - 06/09/10 09:13 PM

I posit that Mr Szihn is at the top of his genre! Well done mate.

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: anothe one done [Re: kamilaroi]
      #167331 - 06/09/10 11:46 PM

Thank you gentlemen.


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vegard_dino
.333 member


Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
Loc: From Norway, but living in Swi...
Re: anothe one done [Re: szihn]
      #169085 - 07/10/10 03:17 AM



Oh, nice gun. Very interesting one.
You also make these in smaller calibers?

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States
Re: anothe one done [Re: vegard_dino]
      #169089 - 07/10/10 07:00 AM

Oh sure Vegard Dino.
I can make about anything asked for. A tiny one would be a 32 caliber, and I can make them up to 2 bore. Anything you'd like.


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