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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

The BEST African plains game calibre
#16601 - 12/07/04 11:32 AM

Time for some mass debate. All of us who head over to Africa for some hunting do some plains game hunting and it is great value and fun. Others dream about it or plan for it and have their own ideas.

Tell us what you think and why.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroX
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Posts: 39734
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16602 - 12/07/04 11:34 AM

I throw in a wildcard to get it started ....

the 8mm Remington Magnum

or given my continental bent, the 8x68S.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ingwe
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Posts: 70
Loc: Texas

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16603 - 12/07/04 12:14 PM

Boy Nitrox, that would certainly be a very VERY good cartidge, but I would just have to take a 30.06. I suppose that isn't a very imaginative choice, and I can already hear people lining up to say that it is underpowered for the big stuff, but to me it would simply be the best for the huge range of game sizes. And I do not share the opinion at all that it is underpowered for the larger animals. Now, that would be if it were srictly plains game. In your question, I am not sure if you want us to also take into consideration the possibility of bumping into something dangerous while we are hunting our plains game, but if I had to take that into account, then I would go with you and the 8 Rem Mag. Not quite as suitable for the smaller game, not quite as pleasant to shoot, but some extra muscle for the beasties.

--------------------

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mickey
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16604 - 12/07/04 12:22 PM

An African Plainsgame Rifle should be an African Cartridge. It should also be from before the last War, for tradition.

Nothing with the name Remington on the end qualifies.

I vote for the 318 WR.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Ingwe
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Posts: 70
Loc: Texas

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: mickey]
#16605 - 12/07/04 01:07 PM

Umm, with all due respect, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the .318 WR was developed in England, and England is not an African country, it is a European country. That, I believe, would make the .318 a European cartridge, not an African cartridge. In fact, I cannot think of a single cartridge that was ever developed by the Africans. I read a story of an African shooting a piece of steel reinforcing bar out of a muzzle loader once.. I guess that would maybe be classified as a true African cartridge.

--------------------

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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16606 - 12/07/04 01:23 PM

Boy, that's a tough order to narrow it down to one caliber

. My personal favorite is the tried and proven 375 H&H but blown out to the Ackley Improved version:). The reason I went up to the 375 is because plains game encompasses such a variety of animals from the smallest Duikers up to the large Eland. I like 2 large holes in any game I shoot, and with a good bullet, the 375 is up to the task.

There are, of course, many excellent calibers available that will take care of 95% of plains game with no trouble at all. It comes down to putting a good bullet in the right spot with the first shot.

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Gibbs505
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
#16612 - 12/07/04 03:18 PM

For some real nostalga, how about the tried and ture 303 British. You could even get it in a double rifle!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

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mickey
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: Ingwe]
#16615 - 12/07/04 04:05 PM

Ingwe

The 318 was developed for Africa and India. The 8mm Remington was developed for....for....for no good reason I can tell.

If it's not in John Taylors book,"African Rifles and Cartridges", then it can't be an African Cartridge. Pretty simple, what? Would you commit Heresy and question the Prophet?

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cr500
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Loc: Singleton ,Australia

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16616 - 12/07/04 04:55 PM

How about the 300 Weatherby.
It has the velocity to handle Namibias long shots without being too hard on bullets.
With 220 gn round noses or 180-200gn Barnes X or Failsafes ,it is good for the biggest of plains game without being excessive for Duikers and other small stuff.
Flat trajectory ,good power and not TOO much recoil.
Ammo shouldnt be too hard to come by in an emergency.
Thats why I bought one. Just gotta get myself over to Africa for my first hunt.

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Will
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Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16618 - 12/07/04 09:39 PM

On my first trip to Africa, I was caught up in the hype of needing a .375 H&H, though it was and is over-kill 95% of the time. And a .375 is no powder puff in recoil, and would cut me with the scope if I was not careful.

But I have used a .375 H&H fairly confidently on every critter I have hunted with it in Africa. I have used it on everything except jumbo. And the 95% over-kill means that I have had something in hand when paying up trophy fess, even if my shot was off a bit.

The original purpose of the .375 H&H was for African hunting, and does a pretty good job of it.

The best single cartridge for Africa, even for plainsgame, was and still is the .375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro-Express.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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NitroX
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: mickey]
#16620 - 12/07/04 11:09 PM

Mick

The 8mm Rem Mag was developed to add a belt and a brandname to the otherwise ideal 8x68S.

Now Remington can probably remove the belt, base in ona .404 rather than a .375 H&H, and call it the 8mm Ultra Clean Magnum, quaranteed to get whites whiter than white.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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TerryR
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Loc: Greensburg, Pa.

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16624 - 13/07/04 01:51 AM

For the first trip, the one that you shoot the best.
Most of us don't go to Africa every year, so when we go it is something special. A strange place, animals that you've never hunted before, a PH at your side and trackers watching over your shoulder. It all adds up to a new unsettling experience, having "old Faithful" in your hands makes that first shot a lot easier.

The second time you'll use a 375 H&H because it's what old time Africa hunters like you always use.

The third time you will use a big double rifle because that's what the PH's use.

The fourth time you'll take the rifle that you shoot the best.

For me it was:

#1 30-06 and 375 H&H ( I was hunting Buffalo in addition to plains game) in M-70's.

#2 375 H&H - Krieghof double

#3 next year - I'm not sure maybe a 7X57

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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: TerryR]
#16630 - 13/07/04 02:41 AM

I saw a German hunter take a Texas heart shot on a big Eland bull using the 7x57 with a 175 grain X bullet. The bullet entered the ham and ended up in the brisket! Over 6' of penetration! That was my first introduction to the importance of sectional density when it comes to penetration.

Two years ago a friend went with me to RSA for his first Safari. He bought a Win. Model 70, classic stainless in 375 H&H 2 months before the trip. He was terrified of it, and shot it very poorly. The first morning we sighted in our rifles, and he was shooting 10-11 inch patterns. The P.H. tried the rifle and put 2 consecutive shots in the same hole. He then told my friend that it was aparent that he was afraid of the gun and couldn't let him shoot it. The P.H. gave my friend a 7x57 loaded with 160 grain Nosler Partitions. My friend ended up taking 11 animals from Steenbok up to Gemsbok and Zebra, with 1 shot each.

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ovis
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16631 - 13/07/04 03:44 AM

Mass Debate,

In spite of Mickey's no Remington remarks, I think the 8mm Rem.Mag. is a very under rated cartridge. I think one should handload to get the most out of any cartridge and that's why I would choose a .375RUM. Load it down and you have the H&H with less pressure and it's easy to shoot albeit not a classic. Load it up and kill anything you want. If I were to choose a "classic", it would be a .303(a friend of mine has killed his moose every year for a long time with one)or a 7MM Mauser(.275 Rigby) just because it kills like a seven mm. A classic to me would also be one that has delivered something to hand when it's time to pay up as Will stated.................it all really comes down to what you can shoot well..............

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: ovis]
#16640 - 13/07/04 10:12 AM

Okay, here's a deal for you fellas. If NitroExpress.com will supply the rifles, cartridges, daily rates, trophy fees, etc... and a small stipend per year (negotiable of course) I will go to Africa test each of these rifles and their ammunition on all matters of plainsgame. Testing shall run for 20 years or till I'm run out of country (or continent as the case may be).

I will procure the appropriate attaire consisting of knee high patent leather boots, flouncy pants

, shooting jacket, monocule, and pith helmet.

Please send your negotiable offer in the form of a PM to me.

Thank you, good day sir.

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mickey
.416 member

Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: DPhillips]
#16644 - 13/07/04 11:03 AM

DPhillips

Your check is in the Mail.

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mickey
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Posts: 4647
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: ovis]
#16645 - 13/07/04 11:04 AM

In reply to:

ovis;

In spite of Mickey's no Remington remarks, .......

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DPhillips
.375 member

Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: mickey]
#16649 - 13/07/04 12:19 PM

Mick,
To streamline the process, and of course to save a coins for NitroExpress.com, I'll limit my testing to the following:
256
7x57 (275 Rigby)
275 H&H Mag
280 Ross
30-06
300 H&H
300 Weatherby
303 British
8x57
318 WR
333 Jeff
338 Win
350 Rigby Mag
9.3x62
9x57
375 H&H

As you will notice, Mick, no Remington cartridges!!!

Should I include the 45/70 Govt (in a Marlin lever action of course). Oh yeah, that's just for Dangerous Game.

Edited by DPhillips (14/07/04 03:22 AM)

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mickey
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: DPhillips]
#16655 - 13/07/04 01:20 PM

That is fine but you may not use any of my money on any new fangled cartridges. One should never hunt with a cartridge younger than they are.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39734
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: TerryR]
#16656 - 13/07/04 01:29 PM

In reply to:

For the first trip, the one that you shoot the best.
Most of us don't go to Africa every year, so when we go it is something special. A strange place, animals that you've never hunted before, a PH at your side and trackers watching over your shoulder. It all adds up to a new unsettling experience, having "old Faithful" in your hands makes that first shot a lot easier.

The second time you'll use a 375 H&H because it's what old time Africa hunters like you always use.

The third time you will use a big double rifle because that's what the PH's use.

The fourth time you'll take the rifle that you shoot the best.

Terry you must be a prophet.

I am only on the third trip, take a big double stage. But will my .22 Magnum do for the fourth stage ......

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39734
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: DPhillips]
#16657 - 13/07/04 01:34 PM

Oy!!!

Who is spending my non-existant money!

I can supply you with an all expenses trip to Aussie (you need to get here under your own steam though) on a big game rabbit hunt. Lots of bullet testing can be done. I have "herds" of the buggers and damned dangerous too (if you put your foot in a herd burrow unexpectantly). Need some doubles too in case the herd runs the wrong way after the first shot.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ovis
.300 member

Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: mickey]
#16658 - 13/07/04 02:20 PM

Mickey,

Did you say you were one of the partners in the gold & copper mine across Cook Inlet by Lake Iliamna?

If so, you could keep some of the excess change here and DPhillips and I both will be happy to test any of the rounds you wish anywhere you wish.......even sans Remingtons.(Sorry to horn in on your offer there D).

By the way Mickey, I did recently acquire an old .350 Rigby Magnum........so you see, there's hope!

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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4seventy
Sponsor

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Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: ovis]
#16666 - 13/07/04 08:55 PM

In reply to:

By the way Mickey, I did recently acquire an old .350 Rigby Magnum........so you see, there's hope!

Ah yes, the 350 Rigby mag.
I've never been to Africa but if I do ever get there I'd be quite happy to use that cartridge for plains game I think!

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Gibbs505
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Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: DPhillips]
#16683 - 14/07/04 03:19 AM

DPhillips
You missed out on the 303British. It has proberly taken more game in africa then all those you listed combined!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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DPhillips
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Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: Gibbs505]
#16684 - 14/07/04 03:21 AM

Oops, I did miss the 303 Brit and the 8x57. Got in a hurry while typing I guess. My apologies, no offense intended. I'll go back and edit the original post so that NitroX won't miss the purchase order for firearms and ammunition!

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Gibbs505
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Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: DPhillips]
#16686 - 14/07/04 03:28 AM

No offence taken. I would love to get a double rifle in 303!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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DPhillips
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Posts: 819
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: Gibbs505]
#16687 - 14/07/04 03:32 AM

I feel certain now, especially with ovis making the sacrifice of joining me on this sojourn, we will have a definitive answer for you in no less than 20 years.

Maybe.

Definitely maybe.

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TerryR
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Reged: 13/07/04
Posts: 42
Loc: Greensburg, Pa.

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16688 - 14/07/04 04:46 AM

Nitrox
I doubt that you can bring in a rimfire - I know that you can't in Botswana. I did use a 22LR on my first hunt - my PH's. We used it to pot shoot francoln. It was an old Brno with express, yes express, sights. We had a ball with it. The only reason that he could have it, they are illegal in Botswana, is that it was his grandfather's and thus already in the country when they were banned.
The francoln pie was excellent.
By the way - wouldn't a 22 rimfire double rifle be ton's of fun.
Terry

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Safarischorsch
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Reged: 28/02/04
Posts: 98

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16691 - 14/07/04 06:34 AM

Yes! 8x68S with RUAG CDP bullet or this bullet here:

http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Kupferjagdgeschosse.htm

why? Powerfull, accurate, no belt!

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jhrod
.224 member

Reged: 26/06/04
Posts: 7

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16696 - 14/07/04 11:02 AM

FWIW from a guy with exactly 1 (one) plains game safari to his credit.

I couldn't have been happier with my .338 WinMag.

My eland was quartering away at about a 45 degree angle, 80m or so away. The 250 grain Nosler hit him about the third stripe back, and proceeded forward and through the bull's off-side shoulder, coming to rest as a bump under the skin. Thru the scope I caught the bull's entire left side cave in when the bullet went through, and I thought he was going to topple and die right there. He caught himself at the last second however, ran 40 yards, ending with a mouthful of dirt from his face-first death skid.

My kudu was virtually the same shot from the opposite side. The bullet exited from the offside shoulder and the bull kicked his back legs in the air. He ran 40 yards and took the nose-first dive into the dirt.

My zebra stallion was looking right at me at 80 yards. When I pulled the trigger, his head jerked straight forward and then he simply flipped over on his back and kacked right there, much to the delight of our
tracker.

My impala was looking almost straight away from me at 100 yards. The bullet entered just in front of his right ham, and exited out his neck just in front of his right shoulder. He went down so fast I didn't see it happen in the scope.

For all these animals, meat damage at entry or exit was very minimal.

Recoil is very manageable, the Federal premium loads with the 250 grain Nosler are fairly reasonable in price and very easy to find, and it obviously has the oomph to get the job done on plains game from impala to eland. The perfect rifle for my "keep it simple, the gun is just a
tool" mentality.

Our last night in Bulawayo, we were out at a couple of drinking establishments with 4 other the PH's from our operator. All asked what gun I was shooting, and when I said .338, all just got a big peaceful smile on their face. The "approval" from these guys was instantaneous and unanimous - which is all I needed to see/hear.

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500NE
.224 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Vienna, Austria

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16779 - 16/07/04 07:44 AM

For mass debate's sake:

Considering the 30's as a personal minimum and the .375 as a sensible maximum, anything over 2400fps within that range would make sense.

The real middle would be arround the .338 which would indeed be a good choice in either configuration!
(My personal favorite beeing the .338RUM)

Any opinions?

Grettings,
500NE

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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: 500NE]
#16789 - 16/07/04 10:30 AM

I've been an admirer of the 338 and 340 for some time. I don't own one, but friends of mine who shoot them, have never had any complaints. Four years ago a friend of mine shot a Kudu from around 150 yards away. It was faceing him straight on, and at the shot, the bull went straight down with all 4 legs splayed out. The bullet entered the center of the chest, and exited the right rear ham. The bullet was a 250 grain Nosler Partition.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39734
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: 500NE]
#16798 - 16/07/04 02:56 PM

500NE

Welcome to NE.com. A decade or so I enjoyed walking through the woods of Vienna and observing the wild boar and other game.

There was a reason that the .318 and to some extent the .333 Jeffrey were popular way back when. The .338 Win Mag was a commercial copy of the .333 OKH (?) which was based on these rounds.

I think the .338 RUM would make a killer round except I can't stand Remington. Little bit over-bore though. I like the idea of a 8x68S as it is a little less in capacity, and has bullets from 150 gr to 275 gr to choose from. Here at home I would use about a 150 to 180 gr and elsewhere the 220 gr + would not go astray but still have decent trajectory.

Have used one but do not own one

. A .318 will appear first I think though as it is just waiting to be rebarrelled.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500NE
.224 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Vienna, Austria

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16802 - 16/07/04 07:42 PM

NitroX

Thanks for the Welcome.
I actually had been a member at the old MSN forum, then lost touch for a while and was delighted to see that me old username was not yet taken...

Re .318 and others:
Sure there was a reason the .318 was popular! If you're also an admirer or Mr. "Doktari" Robertson and others of the old school, it probably was the same reason other classic calibers like 7x57, .30-06 or 9,3x62 where popular in Africa and worked (rather: are working) well:
Good Bullets w/ a SD over .300 and a muzzle velocity around or slightly above 2400fps.

So, yes the .318 is a wonderful cartridge, but: bullet supply is "somewhat" limited and have fun if the airline mixes up you luggage and you are left w/ your gun but without ammo in MMBA!

So if you choose a .318, it's probably for a nostalgic reason and hey, since I own a 500NE I'm certainly not the one blaming you for that!

Similar the 8x68:
It truly is a wonderful cartridge (hey, a beltless magnum, just what the doctor prescribed...), however bullet choice and availability (outside europe that is...) is simply not as wide as .30 or .338 (although it got a lot better now w/ Woodleigh, Barnes and others also offering 8mm stuff).
Also, one needs to be aware that most european manufacturers use bullets that are - imho - to soft for africa!

So: What fascinates me about the .338 calibers is the incredible choice of bullets and yes the .338 RUM would be a killer round! But since I'm also not to fond of Rem 700 rifles in Africa, I'm still considering my options! (Even had a chat w/ the Blaser guys a while ago about a custom barrel, but they don't see a market for the .338RUM)

Greetings,
500NE

BTW: So what did you do in good old Vienna and whereabout did you walk the woods?

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Anansi
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: 500NE]
#16825 - 17/07/04 06:52 AM

How about the 6.5 (either the Swedish Mauser, 260, Rem, or WM) It has great sectional density in 140 or 160 grain bullets.

--------------------
Life is a little like sailing. You can't always follow your charted course, and you your destination may be different from what you had wanted.

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McCray
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16841 - 17/07/04 02:47 PM

Not enough experience to matter much, but I used an 8mm Rem. mag with 220 grain Xs last time and it worked like a champ. Used a 416 Rem. on the eland.

Next time I plan on using a rebarreled Mod 70 in 340 Weatherby. 250 grain Swifts or 240 North Forks.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Remington bashing.

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NitroX
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Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: 500NE]
#16843 - 17/07/04 03:09 PM

Yes ammunition components and loaded ammo are a problem with rare cartridges.

But if you want something different you can't expect to run with the pack.

Woodleigh makes .330 calibre (.318) projectiles as do some African bullet manufacturers. At the worst I would try swaging some bullets down.

What I want for my .318 is the real classic English stocked Mauser .318 ie the slim short forend stock rifle setup for express sighs. But I probably will still mount a scope in QDs to make better use of it.

8mm. Woodleigh makes projectiles as again some African manufacturers. The softer bullets for the 8x57 would not be as big a problem as I would use these on feral game and similar, and a soft bullet is spectacular on these lighter game and kills extremely well. And cheaper. The fast light bullets also provide a good trajectory out to 350 metres or so. A .30-06 kills emphatically so a 8x68S will be even more effective.

I do like the range of bullets available in .338 too.

Welcome back to NE.com.

I was in Vienna in 1989 on a holiday when living in London. I do not remember which woods they were. If I remember the right forest, it was close to the city, fenced and public. There were Hochsitz for the hunting season and on entering the forests gate, wildboar piglets fed right up to us and around us on a walking track and the sow also passed us. Not particularly wild but I generally don't like to get between a mother and its young. A couple of good boars fed in a grass field.

While we walked in the forest, a hunter musician played a horn with some stirring tunes and later we came across him walking hom and an Austrian couple dressed in fine hunting greens stopped to talk to him.

I believe there were also small fenced paddocks fo moufflon sheep and some fallow deer near the entrance.

Perhaps it was near a famous Hapsberg palace the name of which I am trying to remember.

Vienna was an enjoyable city to visit.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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AdamTayler
.375 member

Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16868 - 19/07/04 01:52 AM

I have not been yet (hopefully Namibia in 2009), but my first choice would be a 7x57 and secondly a 338-06.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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Robie
.275 member

Reged: 04/04/03
Posts: 61

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: AdamTayler]
#16870 - 19/07/04 04:06 AM

A rifle-drilling in 9,3x74R., and maybe a light rifle (Zoli/Mannlicher) in 6,5x55 or 7x57.

Robie J.

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500NE
.224 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Vienna, Austria

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16896 - 19/07/04 08:11 PM

Exactly, if you want something special, one needs to leave the beaten track!

I'm sure such a (98' system-based?) .318 will be a real joy! Don't forget a Rigby-Style peep-sight on that rifle for the real classic touch!

Johannsen (http://www.johannsen-jagd.de/magnumsysteme.html) for instance makes awfully nice systems and rifles based on newly made 98-systems, and although not exactly what one would call cheap, he also offers to have EAW scope bases directly machined into the double square bridges! What a joy to look at!

Also no argument that nowadays bullets availability is no real argument anymore, other than price...

BTW: I'm pretty sure the park you mention is the "Lainzer Tiergarten" which used to be a private hunting ground of the emperor. Lots of pigs and other game (deer) to see and yes, they also do hunt there! (They normally have 2 large driven hunts for pigs a year, with mostly the rich and famous as guests...). There is also a little charlet in the park that is called "Hermesvilla", that now hosts exhibitions and a little cafe shop.
(And yes, the Habsburg summer residence, Schoenbrunn castle, is not to far away...)

Greetings from Vienna,
500NE

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shrike
.224 member

Reged: 16/07/04
Posts: 29

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#16965 - 21/07/04 12:36 PM

Would you throw in Giraffe and Eland.
Well, then go for the 8x68, 8mm Rem. Mag, 338 Win., 340 Wby,
or the .375 H&H, pick according how well you can shoot any of them.
For anything up to Zebra incl, the 30-06 probably do fine, or if you like, one of the .300 Mag. variations all with suitable bullets of course.

Remember, a well placed 06 bullet is a lot better then a poorly placed .375.

Picking any cartridge out of a suitable group seems like choosing women. Some hunters like short and squat ( .458 Win or .300 WSM) while others in our clan seem to prefer the tall slim looks ( .300 H&H or .375), yet others seek the tall husky teutonic variety women ( .470 or .5oo Jeffery). Hmmmmm...............

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blackpowder
.224 member

Reged: 24/07/04
Posts: 1

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: mickey]
#17138 - 24/07/04 12:58 PM

I hear what you're saying, even though others don't follow. The .318 WR is a wonderful cartridge for African plains game. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that I would not hesitate to use it on ANY species of African game.

Before I continue, anyone who thinks there is such a thing as an "ideal cartridge" is either inexperienced or a fool. Any experiened hunter knows that no such thing exists. Such talk is only the result of human thinking and opinion.

Granted, the .318 WR may not be ideal for the ponderous game. Nevertheless, I would not feel uncomfortable with it on elepahnt and rhino. Does an elephant care which cartridge has perforated its brain as it collapses in a heep?

I do not like belted cartidges, and I do not like ultra-super-duper-high-velocity-knock-your-socks-off cartridges. For that matter, any cartridge followed by the term "magnum" is, in my book, nothing but marketing hype, which is not to say that some "magnums" are not good cartridges.

Trajectory is of little importance to me, simply for the reason that all the fun in hunting is found in stalking up close. I do not shoot from 300 yards, and rarely from 200. I prefer to get within 100, for that is where the hunt unfolds. So, "ultra-magnums" are useless to me. If I had to choose one and only one cartridge to take to Africa, I would be content with a number of them. For example: .45-110, .405 WCF, .30-06, .400 BPE. My point is that the rifle and the cartridge have changed so little in the last 110 years that the tools of old are perfectly adequate--just as they were for the hunters of old.

I'll vote for the .318 WR, simply for nostalgia's sake.

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
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Loc: Idaho

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: blackpowder]
#17241 - 27/07/04 05:18 AM

Most Americans want to be over gunned for plainsgame, its part of the mistique of Africa...

To me the perfect plainsgame rifle is 300 H&H and I would include most of the 300 in that catagory..I like the 200 gr. Nosler to top off the best plainsgame rifle...

The .338 Win. with the 210 Nosler is its full equal.....

That said, anything from a 7x57 to a 416 Rem suits me fine..as long as I have a proper bullet for the game I am hunting.....I am a bit partial to the plain jane .308 with 180 gr. Noslers, it sure works.

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Levallois
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Reged: 27/11/03
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Loc: Arizona, USA

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: atkinson6]
#17338 - 28/07/04 12:45 PM

I'll be taking a circa 1920s G. Gibbs Mauser in .318WR with iron sights to the South African bushveld in 2006. If you can wait that long I'll tell you how good it was. I selected it because several sources claimed it was a close as you can get to "the best all-around" for Africa, it is a beautiful example of English gunmaking, AND there is the adventure and romance of using a historic caliber. In my humble opinion, you don't get that from the latest whiz-bang magnum. It's all in what floats your boat. My brother-in-law, who will be with me, doesn't give a hang about history and will be packing a scoped Weatherby in 300 Wby Magnum. We'll see who has the most fun.

John

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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Dark_Helmet
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: Levallois]
#17625 - 06/08/04 03:57 AM

just to argue with Ray...

while I do think that many americans want to be overgunned, I just bought a 35 Whelen to mow-down bambi.... so take it with a grain of salt.

to me the mystique of hunting africa is largely tied to the fact that it is the last place on earth like it... while it is being slowly cizilized, places like the Moyowasi and most of Namibia are just wide-open with relatively little human infringement... that's one of the things I struggle with hunting close to home, not enough open space...

as such I think that whatever you use should carry with it something to that antique nature of the place. the 300H&H is likely the smallest round that could fit the "best" requirements, but there are a few others I think might be a bit better... and its just a tad small for my tastes.

the 358 Norma is sufficiently rare and powerful, yet it seems too modern, a true bastard-hybrid if you will.

the 338WM is about as perfect as you can get, and the response of the PHs mentioned a few posts above lays proof to that pudding. but it lacks soul IMO...

the 35 Whelen, while sufficiently old and rare, is, just like a 358 Norma, a bastard-child, and is quite difficult from a practical standpoint as ammo is not common. and in some instances it does lack in range...

the 338-06 is an interesting anomaly, but the 338WM is much more gun and much more practical and isn't exactly young...

the 30-06 isn't enough to call "best" but it surely is "enough" and I would heartily reccomend it to most any shooters looking for a PG gun that is easy on the wallet and shoulder.

so... what have I established??? well, just that most of the mid-level .3xx rounds are not ideal, either by capability or by character...

the 8mm rounds are impractical, and "best" can never be "impractical"

which makes me do a very very difficult thing... admit that I have absolutely no idea... but my first hunt with be with a 35 Whelen and a 375 H&H... well, maybe

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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allenday
.333 member

Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#17863 - 11/08/04 11:57 PM

I've had fantastic results with a .300 Winchester on everything from dik dik to eland, and for me it's dropped stuff just as well as the .375 H&H. It also shoots significantly flatter, kicks less, and is lighter to carry, so that's my nomination...........

ADay

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Mark_in_SC
.224 member

Reged: 06/06/04
Posts: 13
Loc: South Carolina Low Country, US...

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: allenday]
#18170 - 19/08/04 06:56 AM

I'm with Allen and Ray on this one.

Holly and I have used my .300 Jarrett with 200 grain Nosler Partitions @ 3050 fps to take over 50 African plains game animals so far.

We haven't lost a single animal we've hit with this combination.

--------------------

NRA, GOA, & SCI Life Member
Protect our Hunting Heritage and 2nd Amendment rights!

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: atkinson6]
#18202 - 20/08/04 01:34 AM

Other than for long distance shooting on the Kalahari, a 9.3 x 62 would seem about perfect. It has plenty of punch for the big stuff like eland and giraffe, and offers end to end penetration on zebra, kudu, waterbuck, etc. Yet the recoil is in the 30-06 class, pressures are low, there is not a lot of muzzle blast and the rifles are not big and bulky.

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Gibbs505
.333 member

Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: 500grains]
#18216 - 20/08/04 02:44 AM

A 300 H&H magnum should be about perfect for me!!

If I had one that is!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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470Nitro
.333 member

Reged: 17/09/03
Posts: 467
Loc: Madrid - Spain

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#18367 - 23/08/04 09:05 PM

I always use a 7 mm. Rem. Mag. on animals from Steenbok to wildebeest. Smallers or biggers should be shot with a big bore.

--------------------
-----
down by the river on a friday night
pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight
talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
never had a plan just a livin' for the minute

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atkinson6
.375 member

Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: 470Nitro]
#18696 - 31/08/04 08:05 AM

DAsMafia,
Never fret, I have done a whole plainsgame hunt with a 416 on one hunt and a 375 on another and never had a problem..I did those hunts on my way to Tanzania for Buffalo and just had one gun as I was traveling light that year....

I also did a full plainsgame hunt once with my 6x45 and it was a success...finished that one up with a Kudu, Blesbok and Springbuck cull hunt...

I just feel like the 300s or 338 are the best suited for African plainsgame as that was the posts question, but there are surly a bunch of others that work just fine, including the great old 30-06...

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SafariHunt
.333 member

Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 468
Loc: Pretoria RSA

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: NitroX]
#19495 - 28/09/04 06:21 PM

Personally I love my 375 H&H too much and with reloading I setup my gun to be a high speed killer to a heavy killer on big game. 200 grain bullet at 2950 fps 380 grain bullet at 2180 fps what more do I need yes I know this is favorite plainsgame rifle but mine is my 375 H&H.
My favorite pig rifle is my 303 however.

--------------------
"Sleeping under the African sky I can see nothing wrong with this world!"

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Dark_Helmet
.333 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 399
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA

Re: The BEST African plains game calibre [Re: SafariHunt]
#19861 - 20/10/04 11:41 AM

OK, Ray, coming back to this, you are right. the 300H&H isn't the PERFECT chambering... but it is the BEST.

and it is just so damn cool.

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)

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