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NitroXAdministrator
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The Howdah Discussion thread
      #164149 - 15/07/10 12:07 AM

Harrowing Howdah Hunting Adventures! - click here

Talk about it here!





Harrowing Howdah Hunting Adventures! - click here
Stories, pictures and photos. Howdah hunting, rifles, guns and pistols.




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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #373764 - 02/02/23 05:42 PM



Lang Howdah pistol in .577 ! Jones underlever, back action, Damascus barrels. Credit RB

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93x64mm
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #373768 - 02/02/23 05:58 PM

Marvellous pieces of kit, just the ticket for stopping a tiger from chewing on your arm!

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Longknife
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: 93x64mm]
      #373862 - 06/02/23 02:16 AM

I went to the Tulsa gun show last spring, amazing!!!! !! acres under one roof with 4,200 tables!!!! I encountered a fellow walking around trying to peddle a "Howda"? I looked it over and it appeared to be from continental Europe, it was really in nice condition, back action percussion locks that wouldn't hold on full cock, that would be a fairly easy fix. The Damascus twist on the barrels looked applied and the bores were smooth at about .70 cal. about 8 inches long by my bore gauge and surprisingly clean on the inside. It had a front bead and no rear sight. I guess you could consider this a Howda? I am sure it was not a homemade cut down shotgun and it was really in decent shootable condition after lock work and a pair of nipples. He said make an offer but I stupidly walked on.....DUHHHHH

I was holding out for a double bore rifle,,,,but that didn't happen either.

Edited by Longknife (06/02/23 02:22 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: Longknife]
      #373864 - 06/02/23 02:41 AM

There was a smooth bore howdah in Italy last year I was interested in. Only a few hundred dollars. But after arranging purchase, pickup and shipping through Holts would have added a number 2 in front of the costs, so decided it wasn't worth it. A .58 smoothbore howdah I think it was.

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DarylS
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #373872 - 06/02/23 04:17 AM

Small one, however a hardened lead ball from it would have likely worked just fine, for it's purpose.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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tinker
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: DarylS]
      #373875 - 06/02/23 04:36 AM

So many interesting things from around the globe don't get sent here to my place because of that "extra couple grand" that it tends to take to get them to me.

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Huvius
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: tinker]
      #373899 - 06/02/23 03:11 PM

Now that Lang is a proper Howdah Pistol!

I recall a few years ago we had quite a discussion on Howdah pistols and what differentiates a Howdah from, say, a traveller's pistol etc.

I like the Lang with the lanyard ring and no stalking safeties. Two features a genuine Howdah should exhibit.

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TH44
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: Huvius]
      #373916 - 07/02/23 09:38 AM

Plus one for Huvius' comments

Out of all 8 DB large bore pistols I have only the Wilkinson side lever in .577 Snider is what I would call a "Howdah" pistol

TH


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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: TH44]
      #373920 - 07/02/23 12:16 PM

I've mentioned this before, but would not a .577 Snider Howdah make an ideal bear defensive handgun? If one could hit anything with it.

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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #373921 - 07/02/23 12:21 PM

One feature of a true howdah or pistol compared to a rifle or shotgun conversion is the curved lock plate. Allowing a shorter distance between the handgrip and triggers.

A shotgun action cut into a howdah or pistol has the lock extending horizontal too far back and a resulting awkward distance for the pistol grip to the triggers.

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John aka NitroX

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DarylS
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #373923 - 07/02/23 01:10 PM

Indeed - lock plate must be suitable, however a small lock as on my .54 pistol would work just fine. It is the Bailes (historically the Studenhymer?hammer lock I think) lock, from trackofthewolf and is available in either flint or percussion. Full sized rifle locks are too long & create an ungainly piece, just like the Pedersoli 20 bore pistol.

A pair of .577 Snider rounds with flat point hardened bullets would work just fine on bears, seems to me.
A 4 barreled Lancaster Howdah in .577 Snider would be even better. (many decades ago, Guns and Ammo Magazine- might have been the annual)

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: DarylS]
      #373926 - 07/02/23 01:19 PM

Daryl, I would be far more interested in a cartridge firing conversion ie the lock plate length.

The Pedersoli .45 Long Colt/.410 "Howdah" has such an overly long horizontal plate.

Plus while probably great for fun shooting at a range, a .45 Colt doesn't meet the Howdah pistol power needs IMO. I'd get a Pedersoli .45 Colt though for fun shooting at some special charging or better keeping tiger target event, if a permit was applied for and the readies were in hand.

I wonder how at Pedersoli .45 Colt would go at a 100 metre metal silhouette competition? Perhaps with improved sights?

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #373953 - 08/02/23 05:16 AM

Depends on the Pedersoli's "strength" rating. If rated with that of the .45 Ruger Blackhawks, it will match any .44 Mag. loadings, power wise even though the usable pressure is just a bit lower. I think this runs in the 30,000psi in the Rugers rather than the .44's 36,000psi.
This equal vel. is due to the greater expansion ratio having the larger bore and slightly greater case capacity.
Always wanted a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, but only have a .357 Mag. I do love the 4 5/8" bl., however longer barrels are preferred for target shooting.
Data I have (Hodgdon's Annual Manual) gives loads producing over 1,200fps with 335gr. cast bullets for .45 Ruger, etc, handguns & 1,350fps with 300gr. cast bullets. 7 1.4" bl. revolver with likely .002" to .003" cylinder gap.


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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: DarylS]
      #373954 - 08/02/23 05:34 AM

Just did a search on that SxS pistol and the ROT of 35" would be a turn-off for me. Way too slow. The handgun ROT listed for the .45 Colt is 16". WW mags are usually 18" to 20" iirc.
In the rifles, a 38" ROT worked for me in .45 Colt, but I was running 260gr. bullets at 1,900fps and 300's - 340gr. at 1,582fps and 1,745fps.
I see the barrel length is listed as 10".
They'd have to be lowed to the nuts, I think, in order to shoot with any accuracy - ie: 300gr. at 1,500fps.
That would kick a bit, after all, it is .44 Magnum ballistics equivalence.
My rifle also had a 16" bl. & it "jumped" pretty good for a 5 1/2 pound gun.
Of course, being a SxS, there's the regulation "problem".
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/product/pedersoli-howdah-pistol-45410

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Daryl


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85lc
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: DarylS]
      #376531 - 04/05/23 07:24 AM

Neat four barrel Lancaster pistol just sold at auction

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/R...38-c-3294BCFA73

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RB


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85lc
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: 85lc]
      #376532 - 04/05/23 07:38 AM

This is the write up for the Lancaster

476 Revolver. 6.25" barrel cluster. SN: 7761. Blued metal finish, brown patina to trigger, triggerguard, and grips, and checkered walnut birdshead grips. Four barrel rotary firing pin pepperbox pistol utilizing Lancaster oval bore pattern rifling. All four barrels display London proof markings consisting of the {Crown/GP}, {Crown/V}, and the {Lion/G} markings. The flute between the barrels on the left side displays the 476 C.F caliber marking. Further {Crown/V} proofs appear to the breech face behind each chamber. The assembly number 84 is visible on the underside of the frame, on the underside of the barrels, and on the latch. The internals show further number 84 marks on the firing pin components. The hemispherical front sight has been dovetailed into the recessed upper barrel rib. The rib itself bears the maker mark CHARLES LANCASTER (PATENT) 151, NEW BOND ST. LONDON. All four barrels share an automatic ejector. The breech face is marked CHARLES LANCASTER PATENT. The left side frame has been struck with Meiji period markings that read from right to left: 27th year of Meiji Period (Corresponding to the year 1894) No. 1811. The provincial marking at the left hand side is weak and shallower than the others, suggesting the die was well worn when the pistol was registered. Beginning in 1872, firearms in Japan had to be turned in or registered with the government. Each firearm was to be struck with the year, the prefecture where the firearm was registered, and with a registration number. The pistol was originally sold in October 1885 to a Captain Hutcheson and F. Vernon Wentworth. According to Lancaster's archives, the ledger indicates the pistol later passed to a "Captain Hatchedu", but does not have a date for when this happened.

In 1878, Charles Lancaster's son Charles William Lancaster died. Management of the company passed on to Henry Alfred Alexander Thorn, who developed a reputation as both a keen marksman and an inexhaustible inventor. Between 1881 and 1882, Thorn was awarded the patents used for a series of multi-barrel pistols produced between 1882 and 1897. While cartridge revolvers had already proven themselves reliable, accurate, and effective, Thorn's pepperboxes still retained certain advantages over contemporary revolvers in General and the standard issue Enfield Mark II in particular. As David E. Cooley pointed out in his article "Lancaster Multi-Barrel Pistols", Thorn's pepperboxes offered superior performance thanks to their lack of a cylinder gap, a sealed mechanism that was less prone to fouling by dirt or mud, ease of cleaning thanks to their oval bores, and they could be had in calibers large enough to be effective at hunting large game. Furthermore, the slow loading and poor extraction afforded by the Mark II Enfield helped make Lancaster's fast loading pistols even more attractive to military buyers. Indeed, the Lancaster firm of the 1880s and 90s was going through a golden age of innovation and sales, and could count among its clients European Royalty and American Exhibition shooters like Annie Oakley. Still, while Lancaster's highest quality arms had demonstrable benefits, they were produced in relatively modest numbers reflective of their high cost and of the rapid improvement of contemporary handguns. In total, Charles Lancaster produced 946 pistols in both the two and four barrel versions. Of these, 712 were four barrel versions with 85% produced in the large frame for .455 and .476 revolver cartridges.

Condition Report
Fine. Bores show an even Brown Patina throughout. Metal finish shows losses of bluing along all barrels with majority of blue retained by barrel ribs. Charles Lancaster make and caliber markings are shallow. Item shows edgewear overall with patches of brown patina forming on frame and latch mechanism. Lower left barrel shows some light pitting along its length while lower right has some scratches. Top of frame scratched from the rear sight to the face. The gripstraps are an even brown patina that continues over the triggerguard. The trigger itself displays a brown patina with a mottled forward trigger. Three areas of oxidation to internal frame. Both grip panels have handling wear and darkening at edges. Checkering has signs of smoothing on left panel. Left panel chipped at forward edge. Both grip panels have receded at upper edge and leave gaps along frame. The pistol's ejector functions correctly but the firing pin is slightly misaligned and fails to pass through the ports.

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RB


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: DarylS]
      #376535 - 04/05/23 02:46 PM

Quote:

Just did a search on that SxS pistol and the ROT of 35" would be a turn-off for me. Way too slow. The handgun ROT listed for the .45 Colt is 16". WW mags are usually 18" to 20" iirc.
In the rifles, a 38" ROT worked for me in .45 Colt, but I was running 260gr. bullets at 1,900fps and 300's - 340gr. at 1,582fps and 1,745fps.
I see the barrel length is listed as 10".
They'd have to be lowed to the nuts, I think, in order to shoot with any accuracy - ie: 300gr. at 1,500fps.
That would kick a bit, after all, it is .44 Magnum ballistics equivalence.
My rifle also had a 16" bl. & it "jumped" pretty good for a 5 1/2 pound gun.
Of course, being a SxS, there's the regulation "problem".
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/product/pedersoli-howdah-pistol-45410




Daryl, what is ROT?

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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bwanabobftw
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #376540 - 04/05/23 09:54 PM

“Rate of Twist” ?

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DarylS
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #376543 - 05/05/23 12:50 AM

Yes, rate of twist.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: DarylS]
      #379747 - 30/09/23 02:49 PM

I went looking for Howdah threads, 56 in the last ten years. We need more Howdahs.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #379748 - 30/09/23 02:56 PM

Quote:



Lang Howdah pistol in .577 ! Jones underlever, back action, Damascus barrels. Credit RB




Why many shotgun and dr conversions to a Howdah pistol does not work. Because the side plates or locks extend straight back, rather than curve downwards. Making a pistol grip having a too long trigger pull length. A reason for the so called "coach pistol grips" of the pedersoli replica Howdahs.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #379749 - 30/09/23 02:58 PM

Quote:

Harrowing Howdah Hunting Adventures! - click here

Talk about it here!





Harrowing Howdah Hunting Adventures! - click here
Stories, pictures and photos. Howdah hunting, rifles, guns and pistols.





These original Howdahs' locks are shorter. A long arm conversion with similar would work.

They are muzzle loaders however.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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degoins
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: NitroX]
      #379763 - 30/09/23 10:32 PM

Agreed.

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EDELWEISS
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Re: The Howdah Discussion thread [Re: degoins]
      #384560 - 29/04/24 12:13 AM

So we "know" real howdahs were made with smaller, shorter, and or curved locks. I think we also "know" that some guns were made from cut down rifles and shotguns with larger locks. The larger locks make reaching the triggers and grip shape less than idea; but were they still used as Howdahs? I suspect at least some were pressed into service.

Once the "market" showed a need for purpose built Howdahs, the craft and quality improved. The current examples that remain certainly show less than hard use. One has to wonder if the most used (abused) guns were the shortened rifles and shotguns that have now been lost to history???

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