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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP !
      #161403 - 04/06/10 02:53 AM

Hello,

Who makes a hand crimp tool to crimp a fosbery type slug in a paper hull ?
Stab or perimiter groove type crimp not rolled or star type.
Does anyone have any ideas, my google searches have yielded Nada.

Thanks
Nitro

Edited by nitro450exp (04/06/10 04:59 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161406 - 04/06/10 04:50 AM

ask here http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=128

maybe they can help

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (04/06/10 04:56 AM)

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: lancaster]
      #161465 - 04/06/10 09:46 PM

Some time ago I tryed under Seyfried advise to crimp paper cartridgess in a .577 Snider.
Just used a "garrote" a wire with two handles, one on each end.
Just wrap around and pull both handles.
This works much better than espected.
JMHO
Martin

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DarylS
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: beleg2]
      #161467 - 04/06/10 10:12 PM

For paper hulls, I can easily see the garrote method would work very well indeed, the bullet having that large crimping groove around it's circumferance.
This garrote of wire could be soldered to the each jaw of a pair of plyers. Several could be made for different sized ctgs. if so needed.

Excellent idea - thanks for relaying it, Martin.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: DarylS]
      #161782 - 10/06/10 01:08 AM

Hello All,

Made my own tool, what do you think ?







Now I am off to the races.
Will let you know my progress.

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (27/07/10 08:49 PM)

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Phillip
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161784 - 10/06/10 01:19 AM

What's the spec's on your load? Looks neat!

--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: Phillip]
      #161790 - 10/06/10 02:10 AM

Phillip,

Just got the hulls, wads, cards and gas seals last night.
The crimper was made this morning at work, don't tell !
The shell in the picture is a dummy round, no wads, cards, powder.
The crimper seems to work and not tear the paper hulls.

So this week I will try to work on some loads.
1 1/4 oz hard cast hammer head slugs, sized to 0.726"
I am hoping for ~ 1400 fps. using IMR 800X
I need to find some surrogate data from the field loads in the Lyman book.

I will let you know how it works out.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161792 - 10/06/10 02:16 AM

The Lyman Brenneke loads might be of use.

The crimper appears to be doing a perfect job. I have never been one for undersized slugs in a large bore, ie: sabots shooting .45 and .50 cal bullets. That would be like shooting .30 cal bullets in a .45 cal rifle.

I have rifles in small calibres. If I want to shoot game with a 12 gauge rifle, by jingy, it will be shooting a 12 bore bullet or ball. The only saboted slug I would entertain for a 12 bore rifle, woudl be the Lyman sabot slug which measures .690" (14 bore) give or take a couple thou.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gatsby
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161793 - 10/06/10 02:24 AM

What are you shooting the loads out of?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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tinkerModerator
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: gatsby]
      #161796 - 10/06/10 04:29 AM

Gatsby-


Look Here


450-

That tool is essentially what I'd have suggested, but I didn't expect you to have the access and aptitude in the tool room!
Excuse the assumption.

I'll look back in my posting history and dig up a couple of photos of the hand tools and process that I use to load for my bore rifles.
The tooling is stone simple.
Do you have a lathe in the engineering shop?

Also, have you considered using Goex 2f powder?
It's such an elegant solution to the powder question in this kind of loading. Best feature of all is that it cleans with cold tap water, no chemicals - and you can rinse and re-use your cleaning patches and mops.
If only for kicks and giggles you owe it to yourself to give it a try, it actually simplifies the process.



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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gatsby
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: tinker]
      #161797 - 10/06/10 05:09 AM

Tinker
Thanks.
What is the bore diameter of the smooth section, how much choke does the rifling provide and how does it transition into the rifling?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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450_366
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161798 - 10/06/10 05:45 AM

Nice tool, that must be one hell off a dog you have.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: 450_366]
      #161803 - 10/06/10 06:57 AM

Gatsby

R barrel is 0.727" L is 0.726"
Forcing cone on choke tube, back bored a little.
Choke tubes are straight bored (No choke) extended full rifled 1:32" 0.730" groove
around 0.723" lands ( difficult to measure ) was going to gage it but gage set stops at 0.700"

Tinker

No offense, Yes I have a lathe and bridgeport.
You are hell bent on trying to get me to shoot BP, yuck !!!
I will post some pics of the gun and the 1/4 rib and sights I made.
Here is a pic of a mount I made for my K-gun.
Weaver steel barstock.



I will let you all know how it turns out.

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (27/07/10 08:50 PM)

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161807 - 10/06/10 07:05 AM

450 366

Took me while to get the dog reference, Good one .

Here is my cat who I stole the clipper from



Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (27/07/10 08:50 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161845 - 11/06/10 12:45 AM

Ocelot-coloured tabby? Looks like a tabby - cool colouring. Friend of mine had an Ocelot pet for years, long ago.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gatsby
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Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161848 - 11/06/10 01:11 AM

Quote:

Gatsby

R barrel is 0.727" L is 0.726"
Forcing cone on choke tube, back bored a little.
Choke tubes are straight bored (No choke) extended full rifled 1:32" 0.730" groove
around 0.723" lands ( difficult to measure ) was going to gage it but gage set stops at 0.700



Measure your rifled "chokes" with a plug gauge if you have access to them. Your lands measurement seems very close to your bore measurement.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: gatsby]
      #161862 - 11/06/10 02:32 AM

Gatsby

My biggest pin gage set stops at 0.700 "
Yes, your observation is correct 0.0015" ~ 0.002" engagement is about all I am getting.
Is it enough, we will find out !
It will probably work if I can keep velocity around 1300 fps and under 1500 fps.

I will get to experimenting next week.
Going to the Italian gunmakers Expo in Toronto this weekend.

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: DarylS]
      #161863 - 11/06/10 02:33 AM

DarylS

Bengal. ( F4 cross between domestic tabby and Asian Leopard cat )

Cheers
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161934 - 11/06/10 08:52 PM

Quote:

450 366

Took me while to get the dog reference, Good one .

Here is my cat who I stole the clipper from



Nitro




Nitro450Exp,

That is one great looking cat. Here's a recent photo of our two rather spoiled felines: Bob in the foreground, and Rusty close to the fire.



It's good to have a little pussy lying around the house.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: CptCurl]
      #161937 - 11/06/10 10:48 PM

CptCurl

The Bengal breed is not known for laying around anything.
That and still being a kitten, 1 1/2 years old.
She is hell on wheels.
As a result, I have to work hard to catch a little pussy once in a while !

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161944 - 11/06/10 11:37 PM

Nitro,

I must confess, your's is the first I have ever seen or heard of the Bengal breed. I just read the little entry on Wikipedia to educate myself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_(cat)

Pretty darn fancy!

Bob and Rusty came from our local pound. Cats who come off death row have a certain appreciation of their new environment.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: CptCurl]
      #161945 - 11/06/10 11:42 PM

Capt,

Our last cat was a "pavement special" as we like to call pound animals.
He lasted 13 years, when he passed we were trying to decide what to do.
I saw a full grown Bengal, at DSC 2 years ago and had to have one.
We got ours from the same breeder as the cat we saw in Dallas.

My own pint sized leopard, Her name is Chui ( Swahili for Leopard ).

Thanks

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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nitro450exp
.333 member


Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161951 - 12/06/10 12:44 AM

DarylS

Looked in my Lyman book last night.
No Brenneke Loads, just Lyman foster and keydrive loads for 475 gr and 525 gr.
Where can I get the load data you referenced ?

Thanks
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #161961 - 12/06/10 09:33 AM

I'll try to find it - think the Lyman #3 Shotshell Handbook has the data for 525gr. Brenneke's. I'll PM you.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: Paradox hand crimp tool for paper hulls - HELP ! [Re: DarylS]
      #162073 - 14/06/10 11:31 AM

Thanks to Daryl S for the PM and data.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (15/06/10 02:50 AM)

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