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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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blackbearhunter
.333 member

Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp

First time shooting the 458 today
#16114 - 23/06/04 05:31 AM

I shot a 458 win mag today for the first time ever!
It was the ruger#1 and I fired the 350gr.Federal soft point ,How does the recoil in foot pounds of the 350gr. compare to the 450marlin in the 350gr.?Also does anyone know how fast the federal is going?Can reloading make it have even less recoil.My hornady reloading book only shows a few rounds in the 350gr.It is a old book.What is the lowest charge one should try for and not get the hangfires they talk about?How does the recoil compare to the 375H&H with the 300gr.Factory round?It was not as bad as I was expecting,I believe I will work my way up slowly to the 500Gr.Though.The 350gr. seems like the way to go for north america.Its a neat looking Round!!Does the 416 remington have more foot pounds recoil than the 458 350Gr.Round?Iam just trying to put the recoilthing in prospective...with the various rounds that are kinda close to it.It felt more than a 375H&H to me.Thanks

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: blackbearhunter]
#16115 - 23/06/04 05:52 AM

Recoil is calculated like muzzle energy, but felt recoil is highly affected by bullet weight. In other words, if you loaded you 458 to the same muzzle energy with a 350 and a 500, the 500 will kick harder. That's because the extra inertia of the 500 is pushing harder on the rifle. Extra weight in the rifle will help a little, but it's the bullet weight that makes the biggest difference. That said, it's also the bullet weight that makes the biggest difference on the other end - so size you bullet for the task. I have a 375 H&H and will work up a load for 235, 270, 300, and 350 - but will mostly shoot the 235. If I ever go on safari I'll take the 300 and 350. The problem with the 416 is it only comes with a 400, and unless you slow it down to 2000 fps, it will hurt every shot. Therefor, your 458 or a 470 nitro with full loads and a 500 will pound you. This was a very difficult desion for me, because I know the 375 is not the best cartridge for a double, but I am sensitive to recoil and could not take the 470 or 416 very much.

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blackbearhunter
.333 member

Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: bonanza]
#16212 - 26/06/04 12:08 AM

I think i will leave the 500 grain rounds alone for now.The 404jeffery I have read was one of the best for big game,I figure the 458 winmag, with the 350gr.bullet should be a 404 Lite?I believe it will be between a 300gr.375H&H and the 400gr.Rigby & 404Jeffery?Is this a correct assumpion?
Lots of people overlook the 458winmag,but for comparisons sake there seems to be a close race going on with these calibers....
With game like hogs& elk & moose & black bears I think there might not be a big difference in performance in close range work.
I wouldnt know or say about Dangerous Game like Black Death...But the 404 Jeffery has been there alot........I think I will Like the 458winchester Magnum very much...

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davem3
.300 member

Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: blackbearhunter]
#16217 - 26/06/04 01:28 AM

You might try www.beartoothbullets.com - then click Ballistican's Corner, has calculators for recoil, Taylor's KO factor and lots of other stuff you might find interesting. Dave

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blackbearhunter
.333 member

Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: davem3]
#16218 - 26/06/04 01:43 AM

Thanks dave,Iam new to the 458 cartridge & will try to find out all i can about it.Not a whole lot info in northgeorgia on big bore rifles.Most everybody shoots 30-06 & 30-30 & 270.
around here.Finding any big bore shooters is rare.They always seem like a lot of fun to me...

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Gibbs505
.333 member

Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: blackbearhunter]
#16220 - 26/06/04 02:44 AM

Have fun, is the main thing. My 375 H&H hurts worse then my 505 Gibbs. It is a function of rifle weight in this case!!

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blackbearhunter
.333 member

Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: Gibbs505]
#16222 - 26/06/04 04:46 AM

Yea I agree,It is all in fun,I found out today that Dakota makes a 404.I didnt know that or have never read anything on it.They also make a double barrel slug shotgun,12Ga.sighted for 100yards with express sight!I have been learning all kinds of stuff since I have been reserching the big bore rifles & reloading for them.I have had the time lately & really dont watch T.V.much.I have just about got all my questions answered.But the learning has been great fun too.........Thanks

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blackbearhunter
.333 member

Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: blackbearhunter]
#16250 - 27/06/04 07:21 AM

I found what I have been looking for on chuck Hawks own reloads for the 458 win magnum.
cxp2 class game handload;300gr.bullet hornady JHP
45.6grs. of h4198 powder
wlrm primer,winchester case
Estimated MV 1,900fps.
CXP3 class;350 Gr.BarnesX
64.3grs. IMR3031 Powder
WLRM Primer,Winchester Case
estimated MV 2,100fps.

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RobertD
.275 member

Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 67
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA

Re: First time shooting the 458 today [Re: blackbearhunter]
#16585 - 12/07/04 02:47 AM

BlackbearHunter:

Let us know what you think of the IMR3031 in your 458. That was Elmer Keiths powder of choice for the 458 Win Mag and a 500g bullet. I can look up his numbers if you like, I have it on file.

I haven't tried it in my 458, as I found H4895 gave me all the velocity I wanted. I did, however, check with the IMR people and they indicated that I probably wouldn't like it, as there are usually unburned powder coming out the muzzle and it ends up being an expensive filler.

I always thought that statement to be a bit weird, since Elmer never said anything about that in his writings. Maybe I should load up a few rounds and see what happens.

RobertD

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