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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
.405 winchester double
      #160960 - 24/05/10 10:30 PM

This is my latest project rifle, it has 24 inch barrels, a curly Claro stock with 24 line checkering, and a rear sight with one standing and one folding leaf. It was built for a friend of mine and he specified a weight between 10 and 10.5 pounds. It weighs 10 pounds even with a 14 inch LOP. The action is a 409 crossbolt Beretta.













Edited by CptCurl (25/05/10 12:54 PM)

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tarawa
.333 member


Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 420
Loc: South Florida
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #160964 - 24/05/10 11:30 PM

Great job!

--------------------
Life is for Service

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: tarawa]
      #160967 - 25/05/10 12:52 AM

Very,very nice. It's beautiful. Whitey

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27732
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: whitey]
      #160980 - 25/05/10 07:01 AM

Well Done, Bravo!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #160986 - 25/05/10 08:46 AM

Very, very nice! Please do ask your friend to post hunting pics in the future.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #160988 - 25/05/10 10:54 AM

Very nice BirdHunter50!

Here is a just completed .405 Winchester built on a Huglu 202B box lock extractor 20 gauge shotgun with double under lugs and a Greener cross bolt. 23" and dead on 10 lbs. Barrels are PAC-NOR match grade and was regulated with 400 grain Woodleigh weld cores at 1950 fps.



--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Edited by CptCurl (25/05/10 12:55 PM)

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Rolland
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Reged: 31/12/06
Posts: 318
Loc: Camp Verde, AZ
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: bonanza]
      #160994 - 25/05/10 02:46 PM

That is a very nice rifle good work.

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Rolland]
      #161105 - 28/05/10 06:06 AM

Those are some sweet looking rigs.

I love 405win in a double. The 400 grain bullet is just right and at 1950 to 2000fps a real killer.

BS

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

Edited by BlainSmipy (28/05/10 06:17 AM)

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: bonanza]
      #161116 - 28/05/10 10:31 AM

Bonanza,
That's a very nice looking setup. I think if I do one for myself to keep, I will try and get the weight down to nine pounds or so. The extra weight is not needed to keep the recoil down to acceptable levels and a gun made a little lighter would handle just a little better, I think. It is always a challange to know how much to trim off the barrel weights and still stay within safety boundaries. Anyway, I like your rifle, well done.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: tarawa]
      #161118 - 28/05/10 10:34 AM

Tarawa, Thanks for your nice comment, it was a fun gun to build.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: whitey]
      #161119 - 28/05/10 10:36 AM

Thanks Whitey, I'm glad you enjoyed looking at it. I had fun building it and am pretty happy with the way it turned out.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: DarylS]
      #161120 - 28/05/10 10:38 AM

Thanks Daryl, your oppinion means alot to me and the others on this website.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #161122 - 28/05/10 10:41 AM

Mehulkamdar, Thanks for your valued oppinion. It is always nice to here good comments from people who know what they are talking about. I have asked him to take and send photos of whatever he shoots with it and he has promised me that he will do so.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Rolland]
      #161123 - 28/05/10 10:42 AM

Rolland, Thanks,I'm glad you liked it.

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #161124 - 28/05/10 10:49 AM

Blain, thanks for your nice comment. I liked the way this caliber shoots and behaves. I didn't origianlly think I would like it compared to the 45/70, but it hits with authority and holds it's energy well, further out than the 45/70. Not having used it on live game, I can't comment on the killing power, but I suspect it will do just fine! Send me a PM with some of your favorite loads. We have shot several different loads in this one and all seem to regulate very well. I am curious to know what you used in yours and how long the barrels are. These are 24 inch with a one in 20 twist.

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #161141 - 28/05/10 10:23 PM

BirdHunter50,

My .405 was built by BlainSmipy as a gift. We decided on the 400 grain Woodleigh 450/400 projectiles so it could be used on DG, should I ever come across a rabid pit bull.

We really liked the high sectional density of the 450/400 projectiles and wanted to shoot premium solids.

I know the velocity is down from the 450/400, but I'm not too concerned as these bullets are well proven at most speeds.

Someone asked why did we not chamber the 450/400? The case is too fat. The .405 give more critical chamber thickness.

I re-weighed the rifle and its 9.5 lbs w/ 24" bbls. It's not clubby at all.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: bonanza]
      #161142 - 29/05/10 12:28 AM

Nice rifle Birdhunter,
the grain in the stock especially. Are you planning to add a scope or is the monte carlo just to improve fit?

- Paul

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27732
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Paul]
      #161146 - 29/05/10 02:30 AM

9.5 pounds is perfect for a double - or single for that matter. Any lighter than that and it would be less fun to shoot, and shoot, and shoot.

Now, a cast bullet mould, same weight, same loads - straight WW metal should work find, or water dropped to harden - probably not necessary.

for plinking bullets I water drop, then size and lube (usually only lube in ovesize die unless as-cast are too large) within 1/2 hour or so, and 12 hours later, they come to about full hardness & are ready to load and shoot.

For serious work,(hunting), I usually shoot as-cast to obtain some expansion. There is usually no leading in the large bores and excellent accuracy.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: DarylS]
      #161178 - 30/05/10 12:28 AM

Daryl,

The gun does have some recoil to it, and would benefit with a nice 3/4" Silvers pad. I have in the pipeline another 405win which I'm thinking about building on either another 202b or on a super light Husq 100m back action hammer gun.

Also, in my experience, cast lead/ww never regulates with the same load. Sometimes you can fiddle it to come close, but doubles are finicky about that stuff. You must regulate for the cast bullets for the gun to shoot them well. (I have done this with 515grn 50cal bullets in the past)


bs

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Paul]
      #161202 - 30/05/10 11:47 PM

Thanks Paul, I tried to talk him into a removable scopemount but he was not interested. He said he would never use it. Personally, I would have made provisions for a later scope mounting but he said no so that was that.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: DarylS]
      #161204 - 31/05/10 12:10 AM

Daryl, Thanks for that info. The reason I said I would make it 9 pounds if building for myself is that we used 300 grain jacketed flatnose bullets to regulate this at 2100 feet per second. I see no need of more bullet weight for my own hunting and neither did he. He did say he was going to try some 400's in it and report back to me, but so far, he hasn't. 8.5 to 9 pounds is plenty of weight to handle this kind of recoil and at my age, I see no sense in carrying a gun that is any heavier than needed. I don't know about the .405, but I have found that I can make up a load for the 45-70 using 405 grain cast bullets and get them to regulate just as well as the 300 grain jacketed that were used to get the gun regged in the first palce. It also shoots 350 grain flatnose to the same POA.
Here is a question for you guys out there that cast alot. I have a BUNCH of dead soft pure lead, great for muzzleoaders, but not so good for pistols and high powered rifles. Where can I get some reasonably priced Tin or Antimony to mix with some of this to make it more useable in my rifles?
One guy on FleaBay had some tin ingots for sale but he wanted $16.95 a pound for it and a bunch of money for shipping it to me. I passed on it. In the same vain, here's another question. For using in big bore doubles, how much pure tin should be mixed with pure lead so that I don't get leading problems, assuming that I drop them in cold water from the mold? Thanks Bob H.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Re: .405 winchester double [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #161205 - 31/05/10 12:25 AM

Blain,
See my comments to Daryl above. I have had some luck with going from the jacketed bullets that were used during regulation to hard cast heavier bullets, but, In most case you need to change the powder charge some and maybe even go to a different powder. The secret in my humble opinion, is to try and get the speed close to what it was regged with, without getting crazy on extra recoil as both speed variations and recoil changes will both throw it off somewhat. The other thing is what are you willing to accept as far as accuracy with the different bullets? These doubles were origanaly made up and primarily intended to be used at fairly close ranges, I would say 30 to 50 yards or so, with an occasional shot at 75 to 100 yards. If the gun will regualte and shoot grapefruit sized , two barrel groups at those ranges, then I feel that should be good enough to hunt deer with and at whatever range you can shoot those groups. Smaller groups are always better but not vital to hunt with. Bob H.

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #161207 - 31/05/10 01:02 AM

BH,

Yeah, I believe you can fiddle them enough to get acceptable groups. I do have one now I'm building that hates lead, which is a shame, since it would be dirt cheap to shoot in a 50-90. Still might be just a powder-bullet-lube issue. I need to fiddle it more.

BS

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27732
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #161210 - 31/05/10 02:06 AM

Lead/tin alloys will not harden. You need arsnic to cause the hardening process. You can get the requisite arsnic by using bagged shot, or by adding WW alloy to the mix. Be careful not to get WW labeled with a Z in the mix. Zinc is not user friendly and will contaminate the pot as well.
WW of antimony/lead mix can easily be hardened as below.

I used to shoot a mix of 50/50 WW and pure lead in my .50 Alaskan Rolling Block, which oven hardened to Brinel of about 24, (linotype is about Brinel 22) while straight from the mould, non-hardened, shot just as well and expanded like mad. At 1,800fps, there was no leading with non-hardened, 'soft' bullets. I didn't push the soft bullets(brinel 7 or 8) any faster than that. The combination of large bore and low pressure (slow powders) allowed the soft bullet shooting.

50/50 WW and pure should water drop about at about Brinel 20 to 24 - plenty hard enough for anything a DR in .40 or .45 cal will dish out. When I water drop bullets from the mould, I use a 5 gallon can with afolded towel in the bottom. I also have a sheet over the top of the bucket with a slit for the bullets to drop through. You absolutely don't want any splashes of water to enter the lead pot. BLOOOOOM - molten lead everywhere. It burns. I had a mopth fly into my lead pot last year and I wore about 6 pounds of lead. It emptied my 20 pound pot instantly.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (31/05/10 02:10 AM)

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: .405 winchester double [Re: DarylS]
      #161497 - 05/06/10 08:53 AM

Daryl,
I have found a place where I can get old tire weights but how do I insure that I don't get one or two with zinc mixed into them? Are they all marked as containing zinc? I just bought a new leadpot and I would hate to contaminate it right off the bat. Bob H.

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