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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Custom 348Win Lee Speed
      #160955 - 24/05/10 08:40 PM

I see some nice work by Lon Paul here in 348Win , so it says , looks nice & a change on the safety catch !





Edited by CptCurl (15/11/10 11:01 PM)

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VAnimrod
.224 member


Reged: 02/05/10
Posts: 10
Loc: NC, USA
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: Sarg]
      #160982 - 25/05/10 08:01 AM

I'm in love.

Anyone have ANY idea as to the price tag on something delicious like that?

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: Sarg]
      #160987 - 25/05/10 08:47 AM

Very, very nice! But if it is from Lon Paul, it would have to be.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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375BSA
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Reged: 08/02/10
Posts: 17
Loc: California, USA
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: Sarg]
      #161010 - 26/05/10 02:40 AM

Gorgeous gun! I'm concerned becaue I suspect that cartridge puts up a lot more pressure than the .375 x 2 1/2, which was pushing the limit on the Lee Speed action. The .348 Winchester is one of the more powerful rimmed cartridges ever made for a lever action rifle. Winchester basically used a strengthened 1886 action and made a whomp-ass cartridge for knocking down bear and moose.

There was a Model 71 on gunbroker awhile back that came out of Alaska. The old gent said that when he was a kid (pre WW2), his dad told him "if anything really needs killing, use the 348". That is still grizzly country up there.

Anybody know the pressure the .348 cartridge puts out? 200 grain loads are still available that were made by Winchester for the run of Model 71s that were made in Japan in 1987. 200 grain MV is 2530, ME 2840. The 250 (discontinued) has MV of 2350 and ME of 3060.

This compares to the .375 (270 grain bullet) with a MV of 2000 and a ME 2400. Source of info for both is "Cartridges of the World" 6th Edition.

I have an old Model 71 Deluxe. It's quite the muzzle blast. The guy next to me at the range was expecting to hear a little 30 30 noise. After he landed, he came over and asked what I was shooting!

It might be a good idea to send this Lee Speed to the Birmingham proof house!

--------------------
Working with jc5 on the Lee Speed research project. Very interested in contacting former BSA gunsmiths and other employees.
"Recoil is irrelevant when there's a tiger in your howdah!"

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
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Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: 375BSA]
      #161013 - 26/05/10 06:44 AM

I was thinking the same , could have been a typo , but dont confuse power with pressure !
Seems it is 40000 for the 348Win - 49000 for the 303 & 50000 for the 375Win , may be it works ?

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375BSA
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Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: Sarg]
      #161015 - 26/05/10 07:59 AM

Interesting...do you have a figure for the .375 x 2 1/2 Flanged Nitro Express? If the .348 pressure is less than the .303, it SHOULD work...but I'd rather do it with a pull string and be a safe distance away!

--------------------
Working with jc5 on the Lee Speed research project. Very interested in contacting former BSA gunsmiths and other employees.
"Recoil is irrelevant when there's a tiger in your howdah!"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: 375BSA]
      #161017 - 26/05/10 09:07 AM

Believe the .348 factory stuff was held to 'under' or around 40,000CUP. Now, what that is in PSI, I don't know.

The Marlins are loaded to 50,000 in the .375Win. and .356Win., but held to 43,000PSI for the large rimmed cases.

The M71 is every bit as strong as a Marlin, I think.

The standard .303, as loaded today is closer to 45,000CUP.

I would think standard speeds for your rifle should be OK, but I'd rather it was on a #4.

Your rifle is beautiful for an Enfield sporter - hope I can emulate it with my #4 someday.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: 375BSA]
      #161020 - 26/05/10 10:07 AM

Not really,

200 GR. HDY JFP Hodgdon H4831 65.0 gr. 2316 fps 26,500 CUP

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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DarylS
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: bonanza]
      #161063 - 27/05/10 08:49 AM

All Hodgdon data listed in the Annual Manual runs 36,500CUP or less.

This will push 200gr. Hornady's out at between 2,450fps up to 2,630fps along with 250's at up to 2,328fps listed in this data.

Everyone who uses IMR or Hodgdon powders should buy this manual. I get one every year just to keep abreast of the new powders in these makes - along with reading the articles included concerning new releases & other points of interest.

Big Bore Rifle Ctgs. listed loads and pertinent data on the .348 using heavier than normal cast bullets up to 300gr. It was impressive.

Although the rim size increases bolt thrust at any pressure, the data listed by Hodgdon should be OK in an Enfield #3. Is it OK in a LeeSpeed? - I don't know.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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VAnimrod
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Reged: 02/05/10
Posts: 10
Loc: NC, USA
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: DarylS]
      #161215 - 31/05/10 05:37 AM

FWIW, QuickLoad lists (PSI) ratings for the various cartridges in question thusly:

.303 British = (SAAMI) 49,000; (CIP) 52,939
.375x2.5" = 31908
.348 Winchester = 46412

The .45-70 shows (SAAMI) at 28,000 and (CIP) 31,908. The .444 Marlin shows at 51,488. The .375/.303 shows at 45,991.

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Con
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Reged: 24/05/04
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Loc: Victoria
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: VAnimrod]
      #161473 - 04/06/10 11:05 PM

303British: Pmax 3650bar
348Win : Pmax 3200bar
375Fl 2"1/2: Pmax 2200bar

From CIP spec sheets.
Cheers...
Con

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Phillip
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Reged: 31/05/10
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Loc: North Carolina
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: Con]
      #161809 - 10/06/10 07:32 AM

What do you guys think this beauty is worth?

--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: Phillip]
      #161844 - 11/06/10 12:41 AM

After looking over presssure and loading data in Hodgdon's information, I'm sure it will work just fine.

Winchester Western .348 brass is immensly strong brass that will give long life - if - care is taken to make it fit before it's first firing.

One incredible trait of the Lee Enfield rifles, is the extractor works without modification with ctgs. from the .222 (even the .340" diameter Hornet rim will extract) line all the way to the .45/70 rim size (includes .348Win.)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Riflemanusmc
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Reged: 04/01/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Montana
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: VAnimrod]
      #173097 - 14/12/10 03:32 PM

Quote:

I'm in love.

Anyone have ANY idea as to the price tag on something delicious like that?

X2 Fantastic work. Would enjoy hearing from him..

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458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: Riflemanusmc]
      #173102 - 14/12/10 04:56 PM

I know the rifle was for sale this spring and you can contact Lon by e-mail at tanglewoodguns@hotmail.com and see his web a www.lonpaulcustomguns.com
For the record I think Lon is underpriced for the quality of work he does.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: 458Win]
      #173121 - 14/12/10 10:46 PM

How handy would that be to hunt with ?.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: FATBOY404]
      #173124 - 15/12/10 12:20 AM

I owned two .348's years ago. Shot bear and deer with them.

The Hornady 200 Interlock was sure death on deer, really smacked 'em! But those 200's tended to break up pretty soon after impact.

I also had a bullet mold for a Rapine 262 grain bullet and used it to shoot a small bear.

The .348 is a great cartridge...in a way.

Lots of taper and for big stuff needs heavy bullets IMO.

I'd love to hear Phil's take on its performance in AK.

I interviewed Harold Johnson {originator of the .450 Alaskan} a couple years before his death and he told me the cartridge was not too well liked in AK back in the '40's and '50's due to bullet breakup on bear. I remember him telling me he knew personally of an instance where a bear rose out of the water and before it could shake off was shot with a .348 {I don't recall the bullet} and that bullet broke up in the wet fur, going very little into the bear.

He didn't have a lot of good to say about the 250 Silver Tip either. Hence his development of the .450. Lots more there, but as for the .348, my opinion is it is a GREAT deer and Idaho bear round, but for really heavy game needs a very strongly constructed bullet. Velocities are higher than one might think, it being a levergun and all. Its a big case.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: 9.3x57]
      #173132 - 15/12/10 03:02 AM

Any .45/70-type ctg. chambered up in a #3, will take any pressure the action can withstand on a regular basis. There is no problem with strength in modern brass. Marlin ran a Marlin lever gun to 70,000psi and it extracted normally, without damamge to brss nor rifle, of course. This was a test only of gun and brass - not a normal usable load. modern brass won't take that sort of pressure, ie: .270, .338 mag. whatever, as the primer pockets will expand. The rim itself gives immense strength to the brass, coupled, of course, with modern heat treatment.

The low pressure SAAMI ahd CIP numbers for the .45/70 are due to the old actions still in use, ie: Springfields and other original black powder rifles not suitable for heavy charges of smokeless powders.

This does not hold over to the modern guns, of which the #3 is one. #4's & #5's are even better in the strength department.

They can be loaded to any pressure the .303 is suitable for in #3's and higher yet in the stronger actions.

Even a #3 will run 400gr. to 2,100fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hunter_angler
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Reged: 24/03/10
Posts: 104
Loc: Grand Marais, Michigan (home i...
Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: DarylS]
      #173181 - 16/12/10 01:40 AM

I don't know anything about the strength of the Lee action, but in my Browning 71 I use Stars and Stripes ammo. Load some nice .348 WIN using tough jacketed Hawk bullets, 250 gr at 2350 FPS and 270 gr (SD .319) at 2150 FPS. Definitely enough for anything in North America. Possibly a reasonable choice for African plains game at moderate ranges while providing some cat insurance.

I agree, good quality bullets are necessary. Otherwise the conventional wisdom is always to go bigger/heavier in caliber. I have a Winny '86 in .50-110 WIN as well but I never feel undergunned with the 71.

Yeah I'm a rimmy and a leverhead...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Custom 348Win Lee Speed [Re: hunter_angler]
      #173185 - 16/12/10 03:03 AM

The #3 can be loaded in excess of what is considered maximum for the .348 in a M71.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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