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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Farkey
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Loc: Pacific NW
1903 Mannlicher
      #160213 - 10/05/10 02:48 AM

I guess I'm behind the times but I just discovered that there is a Mannlicher forum here. so I thought I'd show off my 1903. This one is an unrestored original gun that I bought from Westley Richards about 8 years ago (a mannlicher collector sold a couple of rifles to them). At the time I paid a pretty penny for it but I wanted the best 03 that I could buy. I think its worth far more than I paid for it now.

This one honestly looked unfired when I got it, maybe it was shot a few times as it had some old kynoch still in the butttrap. Westley Richards thought it was unfired. The rifle is a long bbl, special model with a 19" bbl (using my measurements), case hardening is still slightly visible on trigger guard. Bore is perfect. I have since shot the gun and its shoots as nice as it looks.







Edited by CptCurl (10/05/10 08:54 PM)

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88MauSporter
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Farkey]
      #160216 - 10/05/10 05:23 AM

Beautiful and un-altered. So many have been "gunsmithed" to improve "something". They are wonderfully designed rifles and carbines intended for the serious stalking hunter. Good shooting!

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"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter

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lancaster
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #160229 - 10/05/10 02:02 PM

it can go better

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: lancaster]
      #160235 - 10/05/10 06:10 PM

Beautiful

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #160240 - 10/05/10 08:54 PM

Oh that is nice! How does it shoot?

Curl

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #160244 - 11/05/10 12:05 AM

Hi Farkey--You certainly did land on "the nicest 1903" you could find--they're rare enough in any condition, but almost nonexistent in the shape yours is in. Was the cleaning rod in the trap also? There's a full-stocked rifle (22" bbl) at Wm. Larkin Moore right now advertised as all original and unaltered (with the exception of a Lyman sight), in what appears to be comparable condition to yours, for 6k. That might be a bit high, but a guy could look a long, long time for a like replacement. Did you buy yours through Westley in the UK, or here in America? If you haven't already, you might try running the serial # on the Griffin and H. research page--if the gun ever passed through Abercrombie and Fitch, you can learn some interesting history about it. If you have time, could you post a close-up pic of the forend checkering? I need to have mine cleaned out (it's the later hourglass pattern like yours), and the checkerer might find a good visual helpful.
Best,
Malcolm

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Farkey
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #160292 - 12/05/10 01:00 AM

Here are a few more including some CU of the front checkering

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dons
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Farkey]
      #160296 - 12/05/10 03:29 AM

Interesting that it has the longer barrel. I understand that there were other options such as a full length barrel rib and pop-up cheekpiece. Beautiful 03.

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Rule303
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: dons]
      #160449 - 14/05/10 07:34 PM

Farkey that is one beautiful rifle and the conditions is incredible. How does it shoot.

Cheers
Greg

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: dons]
      #160456 - 14/05/10 10:06 PM

Quote:

Interesting that it has the longer barrel. I understand that there were other options such as a full length barrel rib and pop-up cheekpiece. Beautiful 03.



DonS,

Here are some photos of a beautiful M1903 with full ribbed barrel:









Interesting and very rare.

Curl

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KurtC
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #160458 - 14/05/10 11:21 PM

Farkey,

Beautiful rifle. It appears to have a post-1924 stock (a little heavier than the original and with a point pattern for the front checkering). It would be interesting to know the rifle date of manufacture and whether the factory serial numbered the stock to the rifle.

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Farkey
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: KurtC]
      #160461 - 15/05/10 12:00 AM

I don't know the date of manufacture, Griffin/Howe does not have a record of this rifle in their database.. My serial number is 153XX I have never pulled the stock off as I don't want to screw up the screws :-)

Edited by Farkey (15/05/10 12:02 AM)

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KurtC
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Farkey]
      #160462 - 15/05/10 01:16 AM

Get yourself a set of Thin Bits from Brownells. You'll need them to clean/oil the rifle properly and keep the action screws snug. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=425/Product/MAGNA_TIP_reg__THIN_BIT_SET

Early rifles have a date code on the underside of the barrel. The stocks are numbered under the front receiver ring

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: KurtC]
      #160504 - 15/05/10 02:44 PM

Kurt's right, you should have appropriate drivers--if the stock's loose, it can crack behind the tang on recoil. I've got thin Brownell's and the Wheeler gunsmithing drivers, either option is a good one.
Thanks for the checkering pics...
Malcolm

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #160526 - 16/05/10 12:39 AM

KurtC,

Nice 1950 on GB!

Curl

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TexasJohn
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #160527 - 16/05/10 12:42 AM

"Appears to be a post 1924 stock".......I was once told by a collector that M-S changed from the bolt release that has the round "button" on it to the smooth curved one in 1924; however, I have never been able to confirm that bit of information. I have two 1903's that have the early release on them. The serial number on 1903's don't appear to make sense sometimes. From production codes on the bottom my "later gun" has a four digit serial number and my "early" gun has an 11,XXX number. If anyone has definitive information on this I would love to know.

John

Edited by TexasJohn (16/05/10 12:43 AM)

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KurtC
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: TexasJohn]
      #160530 - 16/05/10 03:13 AM

Early rifles should have a date code on the barrel and receiver, below the wood. For example, in the borrowed photo below, the code of 711.07 would indicate the 711th rifle proofed in 1907.

Serial numbers don't necessarily correspond to model or date of manufacture.



Edited by CptCurl (16/05/10 01:25 PM)

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kuduae
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: KurtC]
      #160532 - 16/05/10 04:37 AM

Steyr changed to the rectangular bolt release with the MODELS 1924 and 1925, the "Hochrasanzstutzen" = high velocity rifles for cartridges like the .30-06, 7x64, 8x60, 9.3x62. Up to WW2 they continued to make their proprietary models 1903/6.5x54, 1905/9x56, 1908/8x56, 1910/9.5x57 with the original round-knob style bolt release. So the style of bolt release is not useable for dating a 1903!

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Edited by kuduae (16/05/10 04:39 AM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #162109 - 15/06/10 07:34 AM

Quote:

There's a full-stocked rifle (22" bbl) at Wm. Larkin Moore right now advertised as all original and unaltered (with the exception of a Lyman sight), in what appears to be comparable condition to yours, for 6k. That might be a bit high, but a guy could look a long, long time for a like replacement.



Would anybody hazard an opinion of what that rifle would be worth? It's gone from the website now. Sure looked like a cherry specimen. Would it be worth $6k?

I'd like to find a really nice M1903. What does one pay for such?

_____________________________________________________

Another M-S question:

There was an interesting M-S specimen on GunBroker just recently. Can anybody identify what exactly it is?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=172716299

I read the description, which says, "THIS IS VERY SIMPLY A COLLECTOR'S CREATION MADE IN GERMANY CIRCA 1910." I thought that was funny because these are Austrian guns. But the photo looks like the receiver ring is stamped "Made in Germany". What's that all about?

And the caliber. It's advertised as a 6.5x54mm. However, the receiver ring clearly is stamped "Cal. 6.5 Norm." Would that be the 6.5mm Mauser? It's not marked Mod. 1903.

Then there's the style of the stock, with the close grip. The full length forend is clearly detachable. That would normally be indicative of a takedown rifle, but this rifle doesn't have the little takedown lever in front of the trigger guard.

Obviously I have a lot to learn. Any help will be appreciated.



Curl
_____________________________________________________


I am editing this post to include photos of the interesting rifle listed on GunBroker.com:

























Edited by CptCurl (16/06/10 10:00 AM)

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Peconga
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162120 - 15/06/10 12:26 PM

Quote:



Another M-S question:

There was an interesting M-S specimen on GunBroker just recently. Can anybody identify what exactly it is?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=172716299

I read the description, which says, "THIS IS VERY SIMPLY A COLLECTOR'S CREATION MADE IN GERMANY CIRCA 1910." I thought that was funny because these are Austrian guns. But the photo looks like the receiver ring is stamped "Made in Germany". What's that all about?

And the caliber. It's advertised as a 6.5x54mm. However, the receiver ring clearly is stamped "Cal. 6.5 Norm." Would that be the 6.5mm Mauser? It's not marked Mod. 1903.

Then there's the style of the stock, with the close grip. The full length forend is clearly detachable. That would normally be indicative of a takedown rifle, but this rifle doesn't have the little takedown lever in front of the trigger guard.

Obviously I have a lot to learn. Any help will be appreciated.

Curl



A few observations on the Mannlicher Schoenauer on GunBroker:

1) The roll mark "Made in Germany" on the front receiver ring suggests that it was manufactured after the "Anschluss" (annexation) of Austria by Germany in March, 1938. The fact that it is so marked in English would indicate that it was intended for export, presumably to the USA. The date stamp under the barrel would probably confirm this; I have no idea where the seller came up with the manufacture date of 1910.

2) The rifle shown has a full length stock and is fitted with a shotgun style triggerguard, double triggers, and tang mounted folding peep sight. It does not appear to be a takedown model, as it lacks the release lever in front of the triggerguard, and has no provision on the front end for a removable pin through the front sling swivel. All the takedown M-S rifles that I have seen over the years are half-stock rifles with a military style triggerguard.

3) The front end of the forearm appears to have been cut off immediately in front of the front sight, and then re-attached with a black spacer glued between the two parts. This is commonly called a "Duffle Cut" which referred to the practice of returning G.I.s cutting the stock of a war trophy rifle so the parts would fit into a military issue canvas "Duffle Bag" to ship it home.

4) The caliber marking "KAL. 6.5MM NORM" appears where one would usually see "M.1903" stamped; most (but evidently not all) pre-war 1903 (and 1905, 1908, and 1910) M-S rifles have the caliber marked on the underside of the barrel, not on top of the receiver ring. Markings were different on pre-war High Velocity (long action) models and post-war M-S rifles. The actual chambering is an interesting question; presumably it refers to the standard 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer cartridge, although I suppose it is theoretically possible that it refers to the similar (but not identical) 6.5x54 Mauser cartridge sometimes seen on commercial Oberndorf rifles based on the "Kurz" Mauser 98 action. Not likely, but possible...

5) Although the horrible photos make a true assessment of condition difficult, based on what can be seen, in my opinion the starting price of US$2200 and "Buy-Now" price of $2750 are about twice the fair market value for this rifle. Since it remains unsold, it appears that other potential buyers concur.

Cheers,
Peconga in Boise, Idaho USA

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Peconga]
      #162124 - 15/06/10 02:25 PM

Howdy Captain--
Peconga nailed it on the "Made in Germany" tag--the late pre-war rifles reflect Austrian annexation into Nazi Germany. However, with the exception of the M1925, the chambering ordinarily does not appear as a factory stamping on most pre-war models, as the "Model" itself designates appropriate chambering (M1903=6.5x54, M1908=8x56, etc.) 6.5 NORM I believe replaced the "M1903" stamp on some late pre-war guns because Steyr was by then commonly chambering in non-proprietary cartridges, including other 6.5 rounds. Seems like somebody posted on here not long ago that 6.5 NORM is 6.5x54--hopefully someone will verify.

The "about 1910" description is totally unfounded misinformation by the seller--the gun's from the 1930s. Paconga is also right about the sawn stock, a not uncommon feature of GI souvenir rifles. And yes, it's overpriced by the standard of other rifles in better condition that have sold recently.

As for the Wm. Larkin Moore gun, someone may well have shelled out the 6k. 1903s in that condition are exceedingly rare. However, if you're patient you can find a perfectly nice, intact shooter with good bore for about 2k, maybe less on a good day. The only thing you'll regret is that one won't be enough!
Best of luck,
Malcolm

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Igorrock
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #162129 - 15/06/10 05:25 PM

Yes, I have Mannlicher Schönauer m1908 with text "8 mm Norm" which means in this case 8x56 M-S.

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kuduae
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Igorrock]
      #162152 - 16/06/10 07:51 AM

From March 13, 1938 to April 1945 Austria was part of Hitler's 3rd Reich,hence the inscriptions "Made in Germany" and "Waffenfabrik Steyr". Of course German rulings were to be followed by Steyr too. The German 1940 proof law required, for the first time, all guns being marked with the cartridge designation instead of model numbers or cryptic bore dimensions. So Steyrcalled their old proprietary 6.5 and 8mm cartridges Normal to tell them apart from the "high velocity" chamberings of the M1925, where they stamped "8x60 Magnum" even in the years before.There ought to be German eagle/N proofmarks and a proof date below the woodline too.
The stock of this rifle with higher comb and more curved pistol grip already resembles the later M1950 design. The sliding tang safety is certainly an aftermarket addition. The parted foreend seems to be a quite well repaired GI duffle cut. Note that Steyr used the old-style bolt-stop on M1903 actions up to 1945. They had to put the new, rectangular design on the long-cartridge models 1924 and 25 because they had to open up bolt travel to the rear. The old bolt-stop design would have ended up with it's rear end hanging out in the air, so they had to change the design to mount the spring in front of the bolt stop cut in the receiver.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: kuduae]
      #162157 - 16/06/10 10:01 AM

Many thanks for the explanations so far. Take note that I edited my entry above to include the photos from GunBroker so they can be preserved here for discussion.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162158 - 16/06/10 10:07 AM

I must say, if this is a "Duffel Cut" made so the full-length stock would fit in a duffel bag, it was repaired exquisitely. I'm having a great deal of trouble thinking this stock was not originally made that way. Look at how all the lines of checkering line up perfectly.



Also, each side of the joint appears to be lined with ebony.

Very interesting example, in my opinion. I'd like to see it in hand.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Peconga
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162169 - 16/06/10 01:45 PM

More comments:

1) Good catch by user kuduae regarding the tang safety; I assumed it was a folding tang peep sight, which was a factory option. This is the first tang safety I've seen on a pre-WW2 M-S rifle.

2) Like CptCurl, I am also impressed by the repair work on the "Duffle Cut" on the forend. Presumably the checkering was re-cut after the repair to match the rest of the pattern. I looked at the rifle long and hard before concluding that it was not a factory cut, primarily because of the location and the black spacer, and also because there would be no good reason to have a two-piece stock on a non-takedown rifle.

Cheers,
Peconga in Boise, Idaho USA

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162210 - 17/06/10 11:18 AM

Well I suppose I'm deranged, but just within the last hour I made a deal to buy the 1903 that was offered by William Larkin Moore & Sons.

This is way out of my normal path.









Quote:

MANNLICHER-SCHOENAUER, Bolt Action, Model 1903 Fullstock rifle, 6.5x54MS, 22, DST,
Round Knob Semi-PG, Steel trap butt, Swing away receiver sight, Cleaning rod in butt,
All original and un-molested, One of the nicest m1903's we have ever seen, ID# 2704,
Near PERFECT Condition $?,???.??






I have a real gun problem. Do you think I should jump off a bridge? Please pray for me.

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Carpetsahib
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162213 - 17/06/10 11:31 AM

Quote:

Well I suppose I'm deranged, but just within the last hour I made a deal to buy the 1903 that was offered by William Larkin Moore & Sons.

This is way out of my normal path.









Quote:

MANNLICHER-SCHOENAUER, Bolt Action, Model 1903 Fullstock rifle, 6.5x54MS, 22, DST,
Round Knob Semi-PG, Steel trap butt, Swing away receiver sight, Cleaning rod in butt,
All original and un-molested, One of the nicest m1903's we have ever seen, ID# 2704,
Near PERFECT Condition $?,???.??






I have a real gun problem. Do you think I should jump off a bridge? Please pray for me.

Curl

You are deranged. Fortunately, there is a treatment. You must package the offending rifle in a sturdy, well padded box, and send it to me. Only then can you be truly cured. Do this without fail if you want to be free of this affliction.

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #162216 - 17/06/10 01:05 PM

Cpt--

Wow, I didn't know I was playing the role of the serpent on that one--looks like you've fallen right into original sin, and a tip of the hat to you for it. In all honesty, you could look for a lifetime and not find another 1903 in that condition. I'm sure it's a pretty early gun--WWI-era or older--so the bore may or may not conform to modern 6.5 dimensions. If it does turn out to be oversized, rest assured there ways around it.

If you haven't handled a pre-war MS before, brace yourself--this gun is about to become the standard by which every other bolt gun is compared, and a lot of other things in life as well...

Few will make grade.

My Sympathies in advance,
Malcolm

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kamilaroi
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #162223 - 17/06/10 02:57 PM

^ Too true!!

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Phillip
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: kamilaroi]
      #162263 - 18/06/10 10:04 AM

NICE>>!!!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #162365 - 19/06/10 09:04 PM

Quote:

I'm sure it's a pretty early gun--WWI-era or older--so the bore may or may not conform to modern 6.5 dimensions. If it does turn out to be oversized, rest assured there ways around it.



Malco, I have read Ken Waters' writeup in Pet Loads in which he discusses this issue. He found that a pre-war M1903 Carbine was oversize (0.2665") and also a late edition MCA (0.2660"). He had Barnes make a run of 150 grain bullets in 0.266" diameter.

What solutions have you or others pursued?

I'm sure when I get this rifle the first task will be to slug the bore. I'll report in with a measurement. Hopefully it will be 0.264". I want to load the Hornady 160 RN to duplicate the original classic load for this cartridge.

Thanks,
Curl

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kuduae
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162437 - 20/06/10 08:07 PM

Even if the long 160gr Hornady RN is slightly undersize by modern standards, it may still shoot decently, as the original bullets also relied on "slugging up" to fill the rifling. Of course, slugging up will not work with lighter, pointed bullets, especially boattails being hopeless.

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: kuduae]
      #162450 - 21/06/10 12:55 AM

My experience is similar to kuduae's--the groove in my rifle measures .268, the land .255, but both the .264 Hornady RN and factory 159 gr. RWS T-Mantels shoot fine. I also get decent results with the Hornady 140 SP, although they don't feed as well. I'd like to try the 155 gr. Lapua but haven't gotten around to it.
I know some people use the Hornady Carcano RN (.268 diameter) if they can't get the .264 to work, but I suspect that mainly happens in guns with pretty weak bores, which yours almost certainly doesn't have. I'd definitely try the standard Hornady RN right off the bat, see what happens, and go from there.

Good luck, and keep the info coming!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #162480 - 21/06/10 12:17 PM

Thanks guys.

I should have my rifle in a week or so. I'll get dies, brass, bullets, etc. and get back to you.

Curl

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #162577 - 23/06/10 12:58 AM

Quote:

Cpt--

Wow, I didn't know I was playing the role of the serpent on that one--



Malco,

Thanks for your sympathies and kind words. Let me ease your conscience. I had spotted that rifle on the WLM website as soon as it was posted. In fact, I had talked to Dan Moore about it before you mentioned it in this thread. I was put off by the price and decided to pass.

I've done business with the Moores since 1996 and always find them to be top-notch. I recommend them to anybody.

As a matter of history, Moores had a dandy 1903 Carbine back in April 2008 listed for $2,300. It appeared little used but not quite as "cherry mint" as the current rifle. I came within a hair's breadth of buying it and regretted not doing so. I've been watching since that one passed.

Dan called me last week as a followup on the current rifle. I had made an offer on it during our initial conversation 7 weeks ago. He reported that the owner had decided to sell for what I had offered, and he wanted to know if my offer was still good. It was.

So don't feel you are a serpent. I'm a willful sinner without the encouragement. Nevertheless, it's nice to have lots of encouragement for this type of sinning. I'm probably still paying too much for the rifle!

Also, this isn't my first foray into the realm of Mannlicher Schoenauers. I have a cherry mint MCA Carbine in .358 Win topped with a Kahles 4x scope in claw mounts.

The rifle from Moores should be here any day. I'll give a report then. Thanks to everybody for the kind words and advice.

Curl

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162600 - 23/06/10 12:00 PM

Absolutely my pleasure, Curl--I know you're gonna love this gun, and I'm glad I'm not the only one hell-bent on Perdition! Truthfully, there are far worse addictions--keep us posted!
Malcolm

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pjaln
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #162900 - 28/06/10 10:19 AM

the stock was made that way because a full lenght peice of wood for that gun was not available...paul

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: pjaln]
      #162909 - 28/06/10 01:50 PM

Paul--
Have you seen others with similar treatment? I've only seen photos of two other post-annexation guns, and they had typical one-piece stocks. Still, this gun has different features than any other pre-war gun I've seen, such as the hooked pistol grip, tang safety and shadow-line cheekpiece. Maybe it's a really late pre-war, with atypical styling and (odd as it seems) two-piece stock? If you have some historical insight into this, or have seen another rifle with similar construction, please share!
Best,
Malcolm

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pjaln
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #162968 - 29/06/10 05:52 AM

malco,,there are actually a few guns out there with this treatment and it was common on gibbs rifles who i just recently had a lenghty discussion with about just this same thing, if you could email me i will forward you the emails from i.m. crudgingtons of england they have probably seen more mannlichers than we have here ...paul

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kuduae
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: pjaln]
      #163019 - 29/06/10 11:36 PM

Here is one of those G.Gibbs Mannlicher-Schoenauers, put together by them in 1905. I always thought that these rifles left the Gibbs shop as takedowns. Gibbs used the front action screw to lock in the full-thread barrel. All Gibbs rifles I have seen have a foreend cut at right angles.




I do not believe the slanted cut on the WW2-period M-S could serve the same purpose.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by CptCurl (30/06/10 09:29 PM)

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pjaln
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: kuduae]
      #163025 - 30/06/10 12:52 AM

i had a big disscussion with huvius about this ,,crudgingtons in bath,england has all the info on this subject...and kinda settled the argument ,,"sort of speak"....paul

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: pjaln]
      #163146 - 01/07/10 08:09 AM

My 1903 arrived today from W. L. Moore & Co.

I think I have screwed myself. The damn thing is so brand-new, cherry mint I'm going to feel uncomfortable shooting it. Damn!

It's a 1908 gun. Possibly unfired.



More later.

Curl

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Rule303
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #163154 - 01/07/10 11:25 AM

CptCurl that is looking sweet.

Now as I am an upstanding sort of bloke I'll ease your pain. Send it to me and I'll give it a good home. hehe

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tinker
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: Rule303]
      #163167 - 01/07/10 02:51 PM

Curl-



It's about time you got a nice little 6.5mm rifle.
On the condition of your new piece -- you think this means you're screwed?
C'mon man, based on the condition of most of your other guns and rifles, it appears you've been banging yourself for quite some time now.
It's amazing you've parted off enough time over the years for your spouse to have sired your children!!







On bore dimensions and the hornady 160
My WJ Jeffery has a rough, oversize bore, and it runs the 160grRNSN quite nicely.
It doesn't like the slightly bigger diameter bullet, which would appear (on paper) to otherwise be the right choice.




Cheers
Tinker

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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #163193 - 02/07/10 02:59 AM

Curl,

Well done.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: NitroX]
      #163583 - 07/07/10 01:33 PM

Howdy Captain--
Just checking in to see if you've tracked down components/dies yet. I managed to buy large rifle primers off the shelf in a gun shop today for the first time in about a year, so things are looking up--I'll be loading for my 1903 over the weekend. You may be aware of this already, but if you do start off with the Hornady RN, ignore the cannelure and seat the bullet to a COL of around 3.05"--the rotary mag generally requires a long cartridge to feed properly. That's the first issue I ran into when I started loading for this chambering, and thought I'd pass it on--

Best of luck--
Malcolm

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #163614 - 07/07/10 09:19 PM

Malcolm,

Thanks for the COL advice, which I'll heed.

I ordered dies, shellholder, 100 Norma brass, trimmer pilot, 100 Hornady 160 grain RN, and 100 Lapua Mega 155 grain RN bullets last week. The delivery is scheduled for today. All from Graf & Sons. Already have powder and primers.

What powder do you recommend?

Won't be long! I'll report back.

Curl

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #164226 - 15/07/10 10:16 PM

Hi Curl--
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. Regarding powder, I'd probably start with the data in the Hornady manual, and try to get your velocity up above 2,000 fps for starters, and more like 2,200 ideally, especially if you want to kill deer with it. In my experience, the H4895 data for the 160RN did not produce adequate velocity for a hunting bullet, and it wasn't particularly accurate, either, although the same powder with Hornady's 140 SP did produce good results in my rifle both on paper and on game--I had a lightning-fast, one-shot kill on a prongbuck at 160 yards with this combo last year.

I'm mostly using Norma N204 powder because I have a bunch of it, in a recipe acquired from a friend who in turn passed it along from a '60s-vintage Norma factory loading manual. It seems to work great with the 160RN, and I can get 10-plus firings out of a case even with a pretty hot load. On the other hand, Tatume, who knows a lot more than I do, has suggested that N204 might be too slow a powder for optimal performance.

Given that your gun is as old as it is, and as pristine as it is, I'd definitely start off on the cautious side. My rifle is twenty years newer, and I'd assume that the metallurgy improved over the decades although I don't know that for sure.

A few other things I've encountered: my Reddington dies produce excessive headspace when set to full-length resize in a conventional manner, yet my rifle will not feed a neck-sized-only cartridge through the rotary mag. I wound up smoking the neck of a cartridge and turning down the FL die just to the junction of the neck and shoulder, and this solved the feeding problem while avoiding the headspace issue. I have neck-sized-only for a friend's 1903, and his works fine with such.

I've found that tightening the action screws past index produces better accuracy. Also, I tapped out the metal sleeve that lines the hole for the tang screw in the stock, shaved it back slightly with a Dremel tool and replaced it, which resulted in a tighter action-to-stock fit and better accuracy.

Best of luck, and I'll look forward to hearing more as you work with your new beauty--
Malcolm

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #164520 - 19/07/10 12:54 PM

Malcolm,

Thanks for the kind advice. I'm slow on the project. The dies, brass, and bullets all came in and are sitting on my desk unused so far. I've been tinkering with a nice Henry .450 BPE that came to my home about the same time.

I'm on vacation this week, so no progress will happen in that period. I think when I get back I'll give it a go.

I wondered about tightening the action screws. That is normal practice in any other bolt gun, but I didn't know about the M-S. Am I correct that this action relies on the rear of the magazine housing as a "recoil lug"? I don't really see anything else to do the job.

Again thanks for the advice. I'll give a report. I'm still a bit timid of popping the cherry on this minty 102 year old rifle.

Best,
Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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RigbyUser
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #166214 - 14/08/10 06:22 PM

CptCurl,

I own a 1903 6.5x54 Mannlicher carbine, finished and sold through William Evans (London). The rifle is immaculate and will shoot MOA or better with competition load and 1.25 inches with 160 grainers at 2250fps. You've gotta love that.

I bought mine in Australia about 7 - 8 years ago and paid about $3500 if that helps. The continental rifles will sell for considerably less.

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heers68
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #166646 - 23/08/10 06:55 AM

Curl, CONGRATS on a beautiful gun!

Really like this "wartime" gun. Interesting piece of history and the safety while added(are we sure this wasn't added as a option new?),would be nice in the field! Kevin.

Edited by heers68 (23/08/10 07:13 AM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: heers68]
      #167586 - 11/09/10 10:54 PM

Photos of my M1903 have been posted:

1903 Full Stock Special Order 55mm Barrel


Curl

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malco
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: CptCurl]
      #167591 - 12/09/10 12:16 AM

Quote:

I'm still a bit timid of popping the cherry on this minty 102 year old rifle.

Best,
Curl



Howdy Captain--

So far I'd say you've behaved like a perfect gentleman, approached her slowly and given her plenty of time--but believe me, she's ready, even hungry, for a good hot deflowering at the local gun range.

Have you loaded any ammo yet?

Malcolm

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: 1903 Mannlicher [Re: malco]
      #167593 - 12/09/10 12:27 AM

We've barely got past holding hands, but she's ready, for sure.

No ammo loaded yet. Just moving slowly.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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