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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
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Loc: Port Chalmers, New Zealand
Bell's Mannlicher
      #157792 - 29/03/10 09:29 PM

I have been searching around trying to find an article that I saw once on WDM Bell and his little Mannlicher, it had a picture of it in there, I recall it had a trap grip with his Nairobi phone number in it...does anyone have a copy of this article? Or a photograph of the rifle?

(Or actually, now that I think about, I have never actually seen a picture of HIM. I have seen the drawings he made, articles about this and that, but never actually seen a picture of the man himself. I wonder what he looked like.)

Just killing time waiting for my first Mannlicher Shonauer to arrive....not easy I find. I keep getting up and walking round in circles.

--------------------
If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
Mark Twain

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
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Loc: Slovenia
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #157794 - 29/03/10 09:57 PM

Here is The Man:



Edited by CptCurl (30/03/10 12:25 PM)

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: 93mouse]
      #157796 - 29/03/10 10:57 PM

Is it my imagination or was that rifle of his up for sale in the last three years ?? best, Mike

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #157797 - 29/03/10 11:28 PM


Mike

I vaguely remember something but it may have been one of his 275 Rigby's.

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93mouse
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Reged: 17/08/07
Posts: 745
Loc: Slovenia
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: 500Nitro]
      #157798 - 30/03/10 12:12 AM

Here is something about his Rigby, Lee and WR:

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7306

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: 93mouse]
      #157822 - 30/03/10 05:05 AM

Probably you are looking for this: GUN DIGEST 1996, page 170, Don L. Henry: "The Big Little Mannlicher-Schoenauer"? It does not describe Bell's rifle, only shows these two photos:





Here is another photo of a much older WDM Bell from American Rifleman Dec. 1954:



--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Edited by CptCurl (30/03/10 12:26 PM)

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: 500Nitro]
      #157826 - 30/03/10 05:53 AM

Quote:


Mike

I vaguely remember something but it may have been one of his 275 Rigby's.



I think it was the 275 with that odd shaped hole in the stock.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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GG375
.333 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: 450_366]
      #157829 - 30/03/10 06:14 AM

Hi Carlsen

Can you give us some details of your new MS you are patiently waiting for please mate? We need to know these things

Cheers.

GG

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #157831 - 30/03/10 06:27 AM

Read here http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4077437 for the results of a recent auction of Bell's papers.

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: xausa]
      #157836 - 30/03/10 07:08 AM

Kuduae, do you know where that 6.5 is now ? best, Mike

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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
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Loc: Port Chalmers, New Zealand
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #157838 - 30/03/10 07:29 AM

Excellent...I knew you guys would nail it. 93Mouse, thanks for the photo and Kuduae - yes those were the pictures that I was looking for. Old Walter Bell didn't take a half bad photo. To see how young he looked in the military portrait (although he was probably 35?) just brings home that when he was doing all the elephant work before WW1 that we know him for, he was just a young guy...I keep forgetting that he was awarded 2 VC's.

I myself am waiting for a MCA made in 1965, a full stocked carbine in .270

I heard that someone was writing a book about him, I am still waiting for it to come out, would buy a copy, I am a bit of a fan. WDM BEll's story strikes a chord with a lot of people, plus he comes across so well in his books, an engaging man. I put his book Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter up alongside Jim Corbett's Maneaters of Kumaon for my favourite books by classic hunting authors. (Jim Corbett is a fine writer who's writing has not dated at all.)

--------------------
If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
Mark Twain

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500Nitro
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #157842 - 30/03/10 07:38 AM

Quote:

Excellent...I knew you guys would nail it. 93Mouse, thanks for the photo and Kuduae - yes those were the pictures that I was looking for. Old Walter Bell didn't take a half bad photo. To see how young he looked in the military portrait (although he was probably 35?) just brings home that when he was doing all the elephant work before WW1 that we know him for, he was just a young guy...I keep forgetting that he was awarded 2 VC's.





"I keep forgetting that he was awarded 2 VC's. "

Are you sure about this ?

Only 3 Dual winners of the VC exist and he isn't one of them.

Also, where did he win his VC ????

I don't think he won even one.

Edited by 500Nitro (30/03/10 07:53 AM)

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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: 500Nitro]
      #157846 - 30/03/10 07:54 AM

Well, I have only read it on the internet somewhere, so it may not be true. Suppossedly for his exploits as a fighter pilot in WW1. Actually I did wonder, because I thought I would have heard about him simply because of that from other non hunting circles if it was true. We have Charles Upham here in NZ who won two VC's (and was put up for a third) who is nationally known for it and I have never heard of Mr Bell talked about with the other multiple award winners of the VC.
This is why I want someone to write a proper biography of the man. (Actually I feel dumb for believing it now. Damn the internet.)

--------------------
If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
Mark Twain

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500Nitro
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #157847 - 30/03/10 07:56 AM

Quote:

Well, I have only read it on the internet somewhere, so it may not be true. Suppossedly for his exploits as a fighter pilot in WW1. Actually I did wonder, because I thought I would have heard about him simply because of that from other non hunting circles if it was true. We have Charles Upham here in NZ who won two VC's (and was put up for a third) who is nationally known for it and I have never heard of Mr Bell talked about with the other multiple award winners of the VC.
This is why I want someone to write a proper biography of the man. (Actually I feel dumb for believing it now. Damn the internet.)





That's why Google is Sooooooooooo convenient - a quick search and it's done !!!

Thank god for Google with all the BS promulgated on the internet

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: 500Nitro]
      #157849 - 30/03/10 08:26 AM

Bell as a fighter pilot in east Africa??? The British there had no use for fighter planes, as Lettow-Vorbeck's German forces had no planes at all to fight! But the British made a lot of use of observer planes to find the German Schutztruppe. Apparently they were not very successful, as Lettow's troops managed to outmaneuver them for four years. At least, Lettow-Vorbeck in his books on WW1, "Ostafrika", sort of a serious report, and "Heia Safari!", more popular stories, never mentions to be in real trouble because of British airplanes. My deceased uncle, an officer with him to the end at Abercorn, also never mentioned being harassed by planes. Also, the story of Bell leaving off the second man from his plane to enable him to shoot downwards with his rifle, speaks more for an unarmed observer plane. A fighter pilot would have been more effective using his machine gun. Further, why was Bell ordered to France while the war went on in Africa? Pehaps he served as a fighter pilot there. Another Uncle of mine, Heinrich Maushake, also progressed from observer to fighter pilot during WW1, but all in the European theatre.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: kuduae]
      #157856 - 30/03/10 09:08 AM

He certainly was never awarded a VC, where does this stuff come from ? best,Mike

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500Nitro
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #157858 - 30/03/10 09:16 AM

Quote:

He certainly was never awarded a VC, where does this stuff come from ? best,Mike




The usual Internet myth written by one person
and spread far and wide until it becomes fact.

A bit like the myth that became "Internet Fact"
that "Double Rifles are regulated to cross" !!!

That one is the one that I see most rehashed on forum's,
especially AR - where when called on it they argue the point

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xausa
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #157859 - 30/03/10 10:52 AM

If you read the Christie's Auction blurb above, you'll see that he was awarded two MC's, not two VC's. Slight difference.

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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: xausa]
      #157871 - 30/03/10 04:37 PM

Ah, that will have been me misremembering. As we all were.

--------------------
If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
Mark Twain

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Brithunter
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Reged: 17/03/10
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Loc: Lincolnshire, England
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #157876 - 30/03/10 08:45 PM

Hmmmm while I don't know that much about Bell never having read any of his books, come to think of it I have never come across any of his books!, but I do recall reading soem quotes from his book somewhere and one mentioned that he switched to the Mannlicher due to it's lighter ammunition weight. Important on a walking safari! for one of his 1898 trips. Now as the Schoenauer was not about them it had to be the earlier Mdl 1893 with it's rimmed cartridge yet everyone seems to assume because it was a Mannlicher it was a Schoenauer.

After the 2nd Boer war Bell of course used a 7mm Mauser and I wonder if it was because he not only acquired the rifle most likely for free but also I am assuming that he gathered a quantity of free ammunition with it. He was a Scot after all and we know that they're reknowned for being tight! The quotes I read also mentioned him shooting Cormorants on the wing with his rifle over the Loch near his home in Scotland. It seems he didn't get on with his neighbours who regarded him as a poacher! It seems that his small place had a wonderful deer crossing on it from which he took some excellent Stags much to his neighbours dismay and annoyance.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

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xausa
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: Brithunter]
      #157889 - 31/03/10 12:10 AM

I'll have to check on this, but I believe Bell's last article in the American Rifleman concerned the joy of deer stalking in Scotland with the (then) new .220 Swift cartridge.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: Brithunter]
      #157897 - 31/03/10 12:35 AM

Quote:

Hmmmm while I don't know that much about Bell never having read any of his books, come to think of it I have never come across any of his books!



Something to remedy! His books are great classics. Read his first book "The Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter" first.

Quote:

It seems he didn't get on with his neighbours who regarded him as a poacher! It seems that his small place had a wonderful deer crossing on it from which he took some excellent Stags much to his neighbours dismay and annoyance.



Ha ha. No doubt, Karamojo Bell was one of the "gentleman adventurers" of the Lado Enclave.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: kuduae]
      #157906 - 31/03/10 12:45 AM

Quote:

Bell as a fighter pilot in east Africa???



Bell served during the war in Europe.

Another myth is that Bell shot all of his elephants with his .275 Rigby and certainly used it a lot in the Karamojo/Uganda/Sudan region but also used a .318 for a lot of elephant hunting.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: NitroX]
      #157907 - 31/03/10 12:49 AM

Quote:





Another myth is that Bell shot all of his elephants with his .275 Rigby and certainly used it a lot in the Karamojo/Uganda/Sudan region but also used a .318 for a lot of elephant hunting.





Dont forget the 6,5mm, he did use that one also.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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xausa
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Re: Bell's Mannlicher [Re: xausa]
      #157927 - 31/03/10 08:13 AM

Quote:

I'll have to check on this, but I believe Bell's last article in the American Rifleman concerned the joy of deer stalking in Scotland with the (then) new .220 Swift cartridge.



The American Rifleman, January, 1950, page 29. "The Neck Shot"

Of course, the .220 Swift was no longer "new" by then, except perhaps in Scotland.

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