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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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NSW_HUNTER
.224 member


Reged: 31/07/09
Posts: 40
Loc: NSW Australia
458 win loads
      #156547 - 15/03/10 04:14 PM

Hello all
I have been a long time user of NE but this is my 1st post I have just purchased a Parker Hale African Safari in 458 win mag and was hoping some of you could give me some load suggestions using Australian ADI powders I'm planning on using Woodleigh 500gn softs and solids.

Cheers Matt

--------------------
where ever your boots will tread may game end up dead

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 458 win loads [Re: NSW_HUNTER]
      #156549 - 15/03/10 05:01 PM

Welcome to NE Matt. I hope you get the info your after.

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alexbeer
.333 member


Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: 458 win loads [Re: NSW_HUNTER]
      #156554 - 15/03/10 06:19 PM

Yes, welcome aboard Matt.

I used ADI's AR2206H and 500 grain Hornadys and 480 grain Woodleighs in my old No.1 Ruger (now a 450NE) with really great results. My old mate who left the rifle to me used it in Zimbabwe with great sucess using similar recipes. PM me and I'll send you the loads etc.

Best

Alex

alexbeer.com

--------------------

Details matter!

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ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: 458 win loads [Re: alexbeer]
      #156556 - 15/03/10 06:36 PM

Hi Matt.
Have done my homework on this subject of late and found that Woodleigh 480grn 458Win Bullets (not 480grn 450NE Woodleigh bullets)are perfect.
Loads are with Winchester cases, Fed Mag Primers, ADI BENCHMARK2 Powder.
I use 74grns of powder for a comfortable 2150fps, but would suggest working up from 70 to 75grns.

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controlled_feed
.300 member


Reged: 23/05/08
Posts: 227
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 458 win loads [Re: ozhunter]
      #156564 - 15/03/10 09:47 PM

Hello Matt

I run 73 grains of 2206 with a CCI250 primer and 500 grain Woodleigh softs and ditto for Woodleigh 500 grain solids except 71 grains of 2206 which gives me the same point of impact for both. The below image is what it will shoot if the nut on the butt does his job.

As ozhunter says, start maybe 10% below any load data that you are given and work it up to suit your rifle.

Cheers CF



--------------------
I was born 100 years too late

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mauserand9mm
.400 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: 458 win loads [Re: controlled_feed]
      #156639 - 16/03/10 09:54 AM

AR2206 has been discontinued some time ago and I think all stocks are now gone (pity, I had a good load for my 308, now I'll have to experiment again).

I use AR2206H in my 458 and use 72gn. It's a slightly compressed load (ie bulges the case a little) but works well. I use Winchester brass and CCI200 primers. This is below maximum (refer the ADI website for the loading data: http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/) and the limiting factor is the compression. I may try AR2207 to avoid this problem but at the sacrifice of velocity.

I also seat the projectile to the crimping groove and use a standard crimping die. I've used the 500gn Woodleigh RN, PP and FMJ with the same load and all do well. I use the same load with the Woodleigh 400gn PP once again due to the case bulging due to load compression. The maximum load listed for the 400gn is a few grains above this but case bulging is more severe. They still fit in my CZ550 magnum chamber but I figure if I keep using the badly bulged cases they will eventually fatigue and crack in that area, and I want to try and maximise case life (although 458 are one of the cheaper magnum brass around).

The bulging occurs at the base of the projectile as the powder gets pushed aside with bullet seating.

The round nose design (including the FMJ) tends to shoot better (accuracy wise) than the PP since I think this puts the contact area of the projectile closer to the rifling. I haven't been able to group like controlled feed's target above, but I'm working on it. The CZ has a very long throat. I may experiment with a Lee crimping die to seat the projectiles further out (unless others have advice on this?) - this should help accuracy and may even get around the CZ jamming issue.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 458 win loads [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #156641 - 16/03/10 10:37 AM

If the magazine and leade allows it, by all means seat the bullets farther out. I would drop my load a couple gr. and work as pressure signs indicate. Some guns immediately increase pressure with longer seating (rare), even in guns wiht long leades, while others don't.

Whenever changing anything with a load, it is wise to reduce it somewhat for the first trial.

The Lee die will allow a good heavy crimp on bullets either not having crimp grooves, or for crimping where there isn't one, of course. It is a very handy die to have for many calibres, especially the straight ones or cases with very gentle tapers.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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controlled_feed
.300 member


Reged: 23/05/08
Posts: 227
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 458 win loads [Re: DarylS]
      #156677 - 16/03/10 06:18 PM

mauserand9mm - You'd be surprised how much 2206 is still about in hoards. I got 5 kilos for my 458 12 months ago. Should last till I'm dead.

Even I was surprised at that group, but my CZ will group a touch bigger than that all day. I really like the 458. That rifle will be going back to Zim in 2012 to hunt tuskless ele and another buff.

CF

--------------------
I was born 100 years too late

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 458 win loads [Re: controlled_feed]
      #156698 - 17/03/10 01:09 AM

Big bored guns are more difficult to hold, but if held perfectly as is easy with a varmint rifle, their accuracy will sometimes astound you.

The bigger the bore, the greater the accuracy "potential" they have as they are less distrubed by inconsistancies in materials and the elements as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mauserand9mm
.400 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: 458 win loads [Re: DarylS]
      #156747 - 17/03/10 09:49 AM

controlled feed - I think you'll find AR2206 has finally dried up in the meantime, but let me know where I may get some if you hear about it. I've only got just under 1kg left and I'll save that for my 308 hunting loads (and special target loads, if I get serious about competition again - I was only half serious at the best of times anyway).

Daryl S - I think also another factor why the bigger bores also shoot accurately is that the bedding has to be more "solid" from the factory on this sort of rifle - has to be for reasons of the stock taking the recoil. The bedding on the CZs these days is not as good as the earlier Brnos and most will advise to have them bedded from new - mainly to prevent (defer?) splitting stocks (at least in 458WM, 458Lott & 416Rigby). I bought my CZ 375H&H brand new and it was actually bedding on the lug under the rear sight! I bedded it myself (Acraglas) but it still won't shoot the lighter projectiles (270gn and smaller) well. The heavier projectiles are longer (and also usually round nose) and I can seat so they are closer to the start of the rifling and I think this is why they shoot better. Anyway, getting off topic now.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27017
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 458 win loads [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #156753 - 17/03/10 12:52 PM

You're right, Mauser - my first .458 was on a beautiful Reinhart Fagen Claro stock - damned soft walnut though, and after bedding perfectly, split down the centre after about 400 or 500 shots. Chipped it out and re-bed and installed scross-pins of 5/16" steel through recoil shelf and behind the tang. Went almost 2,000 rounds before splitting again, then every 800 to 1,000 rounds after that, I had to re-bed it and glue it back together. It never re-split on the same line - generally right beside it though, in solid wood. I used the thin Acraglass for epoxy - dang good stuff - stronger bond than the wood itself. 15,000 rounds through that rifle before selling it. Still shot almost an inch.

Always use a good hard piece of wood for a kicker. Use of cross pins is necessary, as well, imho.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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