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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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carpediem4570
.300 member


Reged: 28/06/08
Posts: 219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
What is your L.O.P. and what is your build?
      #156329 - 13/03/10 06:10 AM

Greetings from Alberta, Canada:

I was rummaging through my gun safes the other day looking at some of my rifles. I pulled out a Husqvarna 7mm mag bolt action I inherited from my father. I took the gun to my local gun store to have them tighten the screws and bore sight the scope prior to going to the range to work up a load. The owner of the shop who is a friend of mine commented that the stock length and length of pull, (L.O.P.), on the 7mm was extremely long at 14.5 inches. My father was 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighed approximately 235 pounds. Add to this the fact that when we hunt here in Alberta in November, we are wearing some pretty heavy bulky clothing to stay warm. My father was deadly with this rifle but my god he must have been reaching to get his finger to the trigger.

Back at home rummaging through the safes again, I started measuring the LOP's of my rifles. One bolt action is cut to 13.25 inch LOP. Another is 13.5 inch LOP. My baikal side-by-side double rifle in 45-70 has the front trigger LOP at 14.25 inches and the rear trigger at 13.25 inches. My Antonio Zoli side-by-side double rifle is 14.5 inches and 13.5 inches. I am 5 feet 11 inches tall and weigh 200 pounds.

Now come the questions. What is your physical build and what is the LOP on your rifles, double and others? How do you go about determining the proper LOP for your physical build?

My apologies for this lengthy tome; I am feeling verbose this morning.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem4570

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: carpediem4570]
      #156338 - 13/03/10 06:40 AM

My measured LOP is 15 inches, but I specify 14.5 inches to allow for clothing. I am 6' 5" tall with a thin build.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: Tatume]
      #156407 - 14/03/10 04:21 AM

LOP depends on a lot of factors - ie; neck length, arm length, upper body dimensions, drop in the stock, ie; stocked for iron sights or scope - period correct muzzleloader or modern rifles/shotguns.

Also - position tells a story in LOP as well. Heads-up, Olympic style shooting with scope or irons, crawling the stock as I see most many new shooters doing at the range - mostly bench shooting, postion shooting and postion of the butt plate - between the peck muscle and deltoid - out on the arm as I also see. I see 5'8" guys who say they need 14 1/2" - chests out as they say it - interesting and a lot of that going around.

A pull too short is easily accomodated for, by moving the shoulder forward, however, a stock too long is clumbsy and difficult to shoot accurately from hunting positons.

If I measured the LOP of the guns that I shoot well, I'd find 13" to 14 1/4".

I'm 6'1", 210 pounds.

This rifle has a 13 7/8" pull and a lot of drop - Lancaster style. The butt fits the pocket inside the shoulder joint.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (14/03/10 11:31 PM)

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: DarylS]
      #156418 - 14/03/10 06:00 AM

I think alot depends on the type of shooting as well. I'm 6' and thin built. My S/S shotguns are 14 7/8" and used for game shooting in the winter, while my O/U gun is 15 1/8" and used for sporting clays and pigeons in the summer. The type of grip can be important too as for pistol grips the measurement to the grip is as critical as the measurement from grip to trigger (slightly different for straight hand stocks). It is different for rifles though because of the varied shooting positions. Look at adjustable stocks for 3 position shooting - shooters often have a different stock setting for each position (prone, kneeling, standing). For a hunting rifle you have to compromise between the 3 measurements. All I know is my factory rifles are all too short!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #156445 - 14/03/10 12:28 PM

When I was active in position shooting, stocks had to be fixed, ie: locked and were not allowed to be adjusted between disciplines - seems to me. I did have an adjustable plate, but it had to be locked during the 3-position competition. This was unfortunate, as polar opposite positions for the butt benefit prone and offhand shooting. Kneeling is quite neutral.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: DarylS]
      #156446 - 14/03/10 12:37 PM

Both my custom Mauser 98's are 13.5"

I'm quite thick through the shoulder and chest and 178cm tall. I don't hunt in cold weather so my clothing is not much more than a work shirt.

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Rem260
.224 member


Reged: 04/07/07
Posts: 4
Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: tophet1]
      #156447 - 14/03/10 01:01 PM

Mine was measured two weeks ago and then verified using trial rifles at 14 1/4". This was while wearing a shirt and fleece vest. I'm 6'1", 225 lbs with 36 inch sleeve length on dress shirts.

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wombat
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Australia
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: Rem260]
      #156458 - 14/03/10 05:33 PM

6'3" and 109kg (240lbs) LOP 15"

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nopride2
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Wa.
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: wombat]
      #156502 - 15/03/10 05:26 AM

I'm 5' 7", 165 pounds. My bolt rifles are 13.5 ". Double shot guns 14.5" Double rifles 14.25".

Dave

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: nopride2]
      #156580 - 16/03/10 12:22 AM

6 foot, 11 stone, skinny, long arms, LOP 14 7/8", all facory rifles are way short for me, the single shot will be 14 1/2", double is 14 7/8" as are my shotguns, best, Mike

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Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: nopride2]
      #156581 - 16/03/10 12:58 AM

I'm the same as nopride2 but used to be a little taller. I have never felt uncomfortable with standard stock lengths, maybe because my arms and neck are a fraction long or maybe because the average man was a bit shorter before steroid-filled chicken came along. My double rifle is 14.55", factory standard I believe, though I've heard they should be shorter than db shotguns, if only because of the heavy barrels.

Yes, I could get everything lopped off for myself but my boys are two or three inches taller and might not thank me for it.

- Paul

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: Paul]
      #156686 - 16/03/10 10:11 PM

I,m 6 foot tall and 110 kg. I choose 14" lop on my rifle's.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: FATBOY404]
      #156755 - 17/03/10 01:19 PM


14 7/8 for all my shotguns, bolt rifles and my double (all virtually straight stock, including my double) 5'10 / 200 lb /fairly long arms

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450_EXPRESS
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/09
Posts: 349
Loc: S.C.Montana
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #156763 - 17/03/10 03:03 PM

I'm 5' 9" around 150lbs. Short thick necked. 13 1/2" on my rifles, I lucked out on my .450 BPE it's 13 5/8", and 14" on my shotguns works OK.

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carpediem4570
.300 member


Reged: 28/06/08
Posts: 219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: 450_EXPRESS]
      #156805 - 18/03/10 02:30 AM

Well, this is certainly getting interesting. I assumed by your answers I would be able to correlate height, weight and build to calculate the correct lop for long arms; meaning firearms, not long from shoulder to finger LOL. It seems I have made an error. I guess lop is a subjective thing; what feels best to the shooter.

How many of you have had your guns fitted to you and how may have gone with what comes is what you use.

I have several rifles and shotguns that came too long and had the stocks cut to 13.5 inches to fit me. In particular, the Brno 375 HH Model zkk 602 comes to mind. The stock with pad come long enough to fit someone 6 feet 13.5 inches tall and then some LOL. I had to have it cut down. I just could not reach the trigger comfortably.

I was reading some info on lop that suggests using the "rule of thumb" to measure stock length. One shoulders the firearm and measures the distance from the knuckle where the thumb attachs to the hand to the tip of the nose. The distance between the two should be between 1.5 - 2 inches. Anyone use this method for determining lop?

Kindest regards,

Carpediem4570

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"

Edited by carpediem4570 (18/03/10 02:31 AM)

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: carpediem4570]
      #156824 - 18/03/10 06:50 AM

Difficult to explain and make any sense, but here goes! One method is to hold your arm out so that the elbow makes a 90* angle between your upper and fore-arm. Point your trigger finger and measure from the crook of your elbow to the point on the trigger finger where you like to engage the trigger. It is often easier if you use a broom handle and pretend its a rifle, grab the imaginary stock wrist and measure to the bent trigger finger...
You can also do this holding a rifle and not grasping the pistol grip. If I wrap my elbow around the but of the rifle, my hand and trigger finger naturally fall further forward than the pistol grip and trigger of most factory rifles and I can quickly estimate how much extra butt length would be needed for me.
A better way would be to borrow a target rifle with adjustable butt plate and measure off that.
A friend of mine swears that he likes short LOP but I'm sure he is just in denial (and I outshoot him!)

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #156826 - 18/03/10 07:27 AM

Quote:

Difficult to explain and make any sense, but here goes! One method is to hold your arm out so that the elbow makes a 90* angle between your upper and fore-arm. Point your trigger finger and measure from the crook of your elbow to the point on the trigger finger where you like to engage the trigger. It is often easier if you use a broom handle and pretend its a rifle, grab the imaginary stock wrist and measure to the bent trigger finger...



Like this?



--------------------
~

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: Grenadier]
      #156873 - 19/03/10 01:56 AM

Got any more pictures?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: carpediem4570]
      #156911 - 19/03/10 01:30 PM


Carpediem,

to a degree you can get used to most LOPs that are not too far off for comfort. I started shooting shotguns with an off-the-shelf Beretta a long time ago. When I had a gun professionally fitted to me at H&H I felt most comfortable with a stock design that turned out to be an exact copy of my original Beretta. So if you have a shotgun or double rifle that you shoot well with already, simply use it as blueprint for other guns.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: Grenadier]
      #156926 - 19/03/10 07:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Difficult to explain and make any sense, but here goes! One method is to hold your arm out so that the elbow makes a 90* angle between your upper and fore-arm. Point your trigger finger and measure from the crook of your elbow to the point on the trigger finger where you like to engage the trigger. It is often easier if you use a broom handle and pretend its a rifle, grab the imaginary stock wrist and measure to the bent trigger finger...



Like this?




Much better description!!

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Buchsemann
.333 member


Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #156947 - 20/03/10 03:48 AM

Grenadier,

I shot a little coffee through the nostrils on that one. +1

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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carpediem4570
.300 member


Reged: 28/06/08
Posts: 219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: What is your L.O.P. and what is your build? [Re: Buchsemann]
      #156948 - 20/03/10 03:55 AM

I must be getting old.

After having a good laugh my eyes naturally went straight to the back wall, LOL.

Kindest regards,

carpediem

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"

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