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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Scopes for Spot-Lighting!
      #155696 - 07/03/10 07:18 PM

G'Day Fella's,

I've just returned from a hunting/shooting trip to a mates property (Farm).

Yesterday evening, whilst sitting around in his shack sipping beer, I mentioned that I personally don't believe you need to have a 50 or 56mm objective lens on your Spotlighting Rifle!

Now for you fella's from other parts of the world, Spotlighting of Kangaroo's and other pest animals in Australia, is a completely Legal and very efficient way of managing the Massive Kangaroo population!

Many of my mates and I have rifles that almost only ever get used at night, for this spacific purpose.

Now for years heaps of professional shooters only ever used Kahles 8 x 56mm scopes for this purpose (they were De-rigor for this job) and if you didn't have one on your spotlighting rifle, you were looked upon as being an amateur or not really serious about the job!

As is usual with me, I'm not much into "Sheep Like" activities!!!
So as I have mentioned, I suggested that a good 40mm objective lens scope, would be just as good as the bigger 50 and 56mm lenses for spotlighting, as the spotlight provides a heap of bright light!

Well a couple of beers later we lined up a couple of current production Leupold's, a Vari-x3 3.5-10 x 40 and a Vari-x3 4.5-14 x 50 (both set on 10x) and my old Swarovski 10 x 42 fixed power, on the bonnet of my car. We had been shooting at a paper target, at 100meters earlier in the day, so we used it as our "Test Target"

The old Swarovski was a Unanimous Winner, in the eyes of all three judges!

Have any of you fella's had much experience with similar optical equipment?

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: Homer]
      #155697 - 07/03/10 07:31 PM

Yes.

I beleive there is a direct relationship between cost and optics quality. The boundaries will blur somewhat between adjacent contenders in any list of scopes due to everyone having different eyesight.

There are also the variables of possible different magnification and objective lens size which is what prompted your test.

I compared my scopes at Dusk to determine which scope was preferable for trophy hunting and spotlighting. During mid day light the difference was harder to detect.

I rated mine:

Zeiss 6x42 Victory
Zeiss 2.5-10x42 Diavari
Kahles AH 3.5-10x50
Kahles CL 4-12x52
Pecar 4x81
Leupold VXIII 3.5-10x40AO
Tasco 6x40 (Japanese)
Leupold VXIIc 1-4x20

At the end of the day a German Zeiss will always outperform a Leupold wich will out perform a Tasco.

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: tophet1]
      #155703 - 07/03/10 08:25 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Thanks for your input on this subject Tophet1!

I imagine the fact that Fixed Power scopes, apparently let more light through than the Variables, may play a part in this as well?
Sorry, thinking out loud here!
It was not only a Brighter Image but a Clearer Image through the Fixed power scope and it was also pretty obvious!!!
Nobody spent more than 10 seconds looking through each scope, before they responded that the Swarovski was the winner!

By the way this is not intended to be a "Leupold Bashing Exersize", they were just the scopes/rifles that we had with us. I must have 10+ Leupold rifle scopes and swear by them, for day time use!

HooRoo
From
Hommer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: Homer]
      #155713 - 07/03/10 10:03 PM

Well,

The optimum system for a lens for a tele system is 7 x 50 (as the pupil cannot dilate beyond 7mm and loses that ability from abt 25). Fixed powers have absolute collimation of their erector system whilst variables are just that!

Most German lenses use Schott galss specifically developed for each application. Their website has some info. Glass quality and coatings can improve but the key elements remain.

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nothere
.224 member


Reged: 18/02/10
Posts: 18
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: kamilaroi]
      #155733 - 08/03/10 04:47 AM

I just finished up after fifteen years as a Professional Trapper in the Riverina NSW, the last ten years of which I utilised a Leupold 24x BRD that Premier Reticles tweaked for me.....prior to that I used an old 24x Leupold and a couple of 6.5-20's (did not like them though).
The spotlight I used was a Black Night-eater....sold in January to a young fellow in Deniliquen NSW.

All of the blokes around here that are still in the game use at a minimum 18x to a maximium of 24x......the country about here is mostly plains or open country.......were I to shoot scrub under a spotlight I would very quickly drop to 12x.

Regards.

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Dr_Deer
.300 member


Reged: 23/02/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: Homer]
      #155780 - 08/03/10 07:19 PM

Quote:

Now for years heaps of professional shooters only ever used Kahles 8 x 56mm scopes for this purpose (they were De-rigor for this job) and if you didn't have one on your spotlighting rifle, you were looked upon as being an amateur or not really serious about the job!




Fairly good reason for 56mm on professional rigs vs 40mm on amateurs; most amateurs put the full beam of the light on the animal, professionals I've shot with put the light on the edge of the mob.

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #155786 - 08/03/10 09:24 PM

Yep,

and it'e "de rigeur".

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nothere
.224 member


Reged: 18/02/10
Posts: 18
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: kamilaroi]
      #155796 - 09/03/10 02:10 AM



If you do not mind I shall take this opportunity to play with posting pictures.....fortunately it does seem to be rather simple.

Please find included a picture of one of my rifles (sold to Peter at Pro-cal Trading in January) and a tweaked 24x BRD (purchased by another professional Trapper in town).......and a picture of a few of my ex-customers.


Regards




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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: nothere]
      #155841 - 09/03/10 12:18 PM

This might be a silly question Hommer,but if spot lighting is legal there. Why not use a starlight style scope? They have IR lights to use if there's not enough natural starlight. It seems like this would be just the ticket for these shoots.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: AkMike]
      #155842 - 09/03/10 12:21 PM

Quote:

This might be a silly question Hommer,but if spot lighting is legal there. Why not use a starlight style scope? They have IR lights to use if there's not enough natural starlight. It seems like this would be just the ticket for these shoots.




IR stuff is hard to get hold of in Australia.

Gov't doesn't like you having it !!!


I have a night vision monocular from a Herc Pilot's helmet
and it turns night into day. great for picking animals before using the light.

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #155846 - 09/03/10 01:12 PM

That joey in the bag doesn't look too happy old chap!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: gryphon]
      #155847 - 09/03/10 01:27 PM

Quote:

That joey in the bag doesn't look too happy old chap!




Would you be happy ? LOL

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #155849 - 09/03/10 02:23 PM

I've got a russian surplus with weaver mounts that may have been used hunting in a remote area at night. It worked quite well from what I was told.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: AkMike]
      #155851 - 09/03/10 02:26 PM

Quote:

I've got a russian surplus with weaver mounts that may have been used hunting in a remote area at night. It worked quite well from what I was told.





Night vision is even better - I was looking at some deer the other night with it, you could see over 500 metres with it.

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nothere
.224 member


Reged: 18/02/10
Posts: 18
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #155852 - 09/03/10 03:39 PM

IR is useless for this job as there is a legal requirement for everything to be shot in the head (target area 4"x4").....this is to be done at varying ranges up to 300 yards (at night, under a spotlight, from a vehicle, in the wind).....and do not let anyone fool you, 300 yards is a LONG way under a spotlight, AND the customers are not too keen on keeping their heads in one place.
At least with a 24x you can see what he is thinking and allow for it.

There is also the hassle of having to drive the vehicle and process the carcases....so you either use an extra set of IR goggles to drive and work by or use the headlights and gutting lights......the first will have you ready to hang everyone that you have ever met after you have been swapping from one to another all week.....and the second sort of negates any supposed advantage of using IR in the first place.

That said, the most oft used spotlight around here is the Night-eater.....but at over $900.00 and an awful long wait for one to be made, good luck sourcing said marvel.



Regards.


Ps....Oh, and good luck keeping batteries up to the IR toys....for unlike the lads in pizza pattern, you would have to pay for them.....ten hours a night, five nights a week etc!

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: nothere]
      #155857 - 09/03/10 04:48 PM

So much for "selective" culling. No excuse if the joey is that large!!! Bloody pathetic and you feed the greenie agenda with such fatuous comments!

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nothere
.224 member


Reged: 18/02/10
Posts: 18
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: kamilaroi]
      #155859 - 09/03/10 05:20 PM

Before you get up on your high horse mate, you may be interested to know that Professional Trappers (now Commercial Harvesters) are legally required to kill ALL...REPEAT...ALL pouch young.
Failure TO DO SO IS AN INDICTABLE OFFENSE.

Now are you suggesting that I and the fellows that are still shooting Kangaroos should commit indictable offenses on a nightly basis.....and risk a gaol sentence.....just so you can point the finger and feel superior about your perceived moral fortitude?

Wake up to yourself and smell the roses.....the world does not run to the beat of your drum (nor mine for that matter), when you have done a wee bit off time in a Professional trappers shoes.....THEN come back to me and we can debate this on a level playing field.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: kamilaroi]
      #155860 - 09/03/10 05:30 PM

Quote:

So much for "selective" culling. No excuse if the joey is that large!!! Bloody pathetic and you feed the greenie agenda with such fatuous comments!



It's not that easy to see them somtimes, especially in scrub
or facing away.

In any case, you are there to take out roo's, 1, 2, does it really matter ?

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: nothere]
      #155861 - 09/03/10 05:33 PM

Is that meat pretty good? A friend fromhere was down there on a ranch and they were feeding it to the dogs on a drive. But she never said if they ate it or not.. Being grass fed it should be OK.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: AkMike]
      #155864 - 09/03/10 05:43 PM


AkMike

Beautiful meat - no fat, very lean. More of it should be eaten.

Can be strong tasting depending on the type of roo but great steaks, stews, stir fry's etc.

Dog loves it as well, great for the health and coats but
you need to add some fat to the diet if that's all you
feed them.

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nothere
.224 member


Reged: 18/02/10
Posts: 18
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: AkMike]
      #155866 - 09/03/10 05:52 PM

The meat from a 10-12 kilo red Buck or a 10-14 kilo red doe is the best roast you will ever eat, period!....an Eastern Grey doe from 10-13 kilo is not bad at all as a roast.

The problem being that there is an industry minimum of 15 kilos (imposed by National Sparks and Wildfires...NPWS)for human consumption carcases, so all of the meat that you purchase for human consumption is of a grade that I would not piss on, let alone eat!

Interesting isn't it.....almost like it does not matter what the customer wants, but then....how many know.
A bit like young kitten/medium Rabbits are better to eat than large bucks and does.......but all you can get at the butchers is....you guessed it...large.

Regards.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: nothere]
      #155872 - 09/03/10 06:36 PM


nothere

That's interesting - I didn't know they had a minimum of 15 kilos on human consumption.

but yes, those 12kg animals are beaut to eat - really tender.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #155873 - 09/03/10 06:40 PM

Interesting! In about a year from now I'm geaded down there for some fishing and beer tasting, west of Adelaide. One of my friends offered to bring his triple duce along so I can get some camp meat. Surf and Turf!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: AkMike]
      #155876 - 09/03/10 06:55 PM

Quote:

Interesting! In about a year from now I'm geaded down there for some fishing and beer tasting, west of Adelaide. One of my friends offered to bring his triple duce along so I can get some camp meat. Surf and Turf!




You will have a ripper time then if you are going fishing
west of Adelaide.

East is good as well.

Edited by 500Nitro (09/03/10 06:56 PM)

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Scopes for Spot-Lighting! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #155879 - 09/03/10 07:01 PM

I'm already packed and ready .. But I'm bringing some good Alaskan beer to show them what it's all about!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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