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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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DarylSModerator
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THE Battery for India
      #154178 - 19/02/10 04:33 AM

Thought you guys who don't have Forsyth's book might find this interesting.

1/. A double-barreled, spherical-ball rifle as herin described, 14-gauge, 26" barrels, 9 pounds weight, charge 3 ro 4 drams, ie: (82gr. to 110gr.)

2/. A double-barreled, smooth-bored gun, 14 gauge, 30" barrels, 7 1/2 lb.s or 8 lbs. weight to be used with shot or ball, charge for the latter, same as the rifle.

3/. A powerful double-barreled, spherical-balled rifle, 8 gauge, 24" barrels, 12 to 15 lbs. weight, charge 6 to 8 drams (165gr. to 220gr.)
N.B. - For this may be substituted the shell rifle as described futher on, if preferred.("shell rifle", meaning for explosive bullets as described in the text)

4/. A light double-barreled breech-loading fowling piece, to carry ball also, ont he Lefancheaux principle, with Dougall's "lockfast' improvement.

"The first 3 consitute your battery, the fourth is an addition, and will be useful in the snipe jheel or the howdah. You may have these in duplicate or triplicate if you like, but, being a poor man, I am satisfied with one each, myself." (I WISH!)

"For purely large game shooting, a pair of the heavy rifles would certainly be desirable."

When after game, you carry No.1 yourself, or if tired, No.2, and the others are carried by your gun-bearers. If you have a particularly long-legged guide, who is taking the wind out of you, weight him with No.3 and your bag of bullets; if this won't do, pretend to fasten your shoe or gaiter, and give him No. 1 to hold, forgetting to take it back again when you start!

Sounds like fun, EH!

I have heard you can download this 'book' from the net - not sure where. A search for "The Sporting Rifle And It's Projectiles" by Lt. James Jorsyth might produce that answer

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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beleg2
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Reged: 15/08/07
Posts: 591
Loc: Bahía Blanca - Argentina
Re: THE Battery for India [Re: DarylS]
      #154184 - 19/02/10 05:31 AM

Yes Daryl,
You can download it here:
http://www.archive.org/details/sportingriflean00forsgoog

Just click on PDF and it opens Google page, then PDF again and you can save it in your PC.

I have it printed but have not read it all yet.
I have been searching and found hundred of hunting books, Walsh, Greener, Baker,etc.

IIRC: According to Baker, when he went to Ceylon (1850/5) most hunters there used 16 and 12 Ga shotguns with ball and double charge of powder.

Martin

Edited by beleg2 (19/02/10 06:46 AM)

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Tatume
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Reged: 09/06/07
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Re: THE Battery for India [Re: beleg2]
      #154198 - 19/02/10 12:03 PM

It is amazing when reading an old classic such as this, to realize how many magazine articles have in effect been lifted from its pages.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DarylSModerator
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Re: THE Battery for India [Re: Tatume]
      #154246 - 20/02/10 03:35 AM

Absolutely - note Forsyth's book contains many 'quotes' form notable gun makers and hunters alike. Old W. Greener had a fair handle on things, as did Baker.
Baker notes his 'baby', which many people today think was a 2 bore- wasn't. The gun shot a 3oz. belted ball, "never failed to floor a charging elephant". He had a 4oz. conical made for it "which led me into such scrapes I eventually gave up the conical as useless".

This gun would have been a 5 bore at the largest, probably a 6 bore only due to the extra weight added to the ball in it's belted design.

Note that bore size was exactly that, a measurement of the bore, not the groove diameter, in muzzleloaders.

He (Baker) also noted that "a ball that size (talking about a 14 bore gun, 15 bore ball, just over an ounce) would penetrated both sides of an elephant's head" with a hardened ball, using only 4 1/2 drams of powder. That's only 123gr. No wonder my 14 1/2 bore ball (1.1oz) did so well on Moose with a mere 165gr. of powder.

Books such as this are treasures, indeed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: THE Battery for India [Re: DarylS]
      #154259 - 20/02/10 05:44 AM

this was to sold once by Holt's




A MASSIVE 2-BORE FLINTLOCK BALL GUN BY HENRY HADLEY, LONDON, third quarter of the 18th century, with 28in. two-stage round sighted barrel struck with two gold-lined maker's marks at the breech, grooved tang, rounded lock signed 'HADLEY', substantial replacement walnut full stock, military-style brass mounts (side-plate probably replaced), and original iron ramrod (iron parts discoloured throughout), London proof marks, barrelsmith's marks 'H. HADLEY' and 'LONDON'.

Other Notes: This incredible piece weighs in at over 23lbs with each ball weighing approximately 1/2lb. The vendor informs us that the gun was found in India about 40 years ago. The original stock was unfortunately in a very poor state but thankfully enough survived to provide a template for the replacement. Its weight and dimensions would make it a rather impractical weapon from a military point of view, the favoured theory being that this was an early solution for an elephant gun.
Estimate £3,500-4,500

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylSModerator
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Re: THE Battery for India [Re: lancaster]
      #154830 - 26/02/10 03:58 AM

Interesting - Baker's 4 bore was 21 pounds. A gun this heavy would never be carried by the hunter at that time.

This gun above predates Forsyth's time as the lock on the piece dates it to a mid to late 1700's lock - so the 'timing' noted is quite accurate.
Quite possibly though, it is a fowling gun, not meant for game.

By the early to mid 1800's, 16 bore through 12's were the favourites for hunting elephant, buffalo, bear and tiger, however some used heavier bores to 8 for specific use, as in exploasive shells or for 'stopping'.
The natives of that period were using the larger bored guns but as Forsyth says, they were matchlocks, not English guns.

It would be an expensive venture to entice me to fire a 4 bore, let alone a 2.

Nice but plain (as it should be) chunk of English used for the re-stocking job, but should have been stained, I believe.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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