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Slimbo
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Reged: 23/11/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Cranbrook, B.C, Canada
Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70
      #154116 - 18/02/10 11:11 AM

Anybody tried the Kodiak Double rifle in 45-70? I want into the double rifle market, and the baikals just don't do it for me. Does anybody have any experience with the pedersoli breach loaders? I tried the search function but could not come up with anything.

Thanks in advance
Simon


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AkMike
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Posts: 2422
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: Slimbo]
      #154117 - 18/02/10 11:18 AM

There is alot here about them. Try different wording in the search or maybe you didn't change the date range.. zero out the newer than date and out older than 1 week in the other box.
I have one in 9.3X74R. It's a good rifle but barrel heavy. The extra metal removed from the 45-70 should lighten it up some.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: AkMike]
      #154233 - 19/02/10 11:07 PM

Slimbo,

Here's a long thread about the Pedersoli Kodiak Mk. IV, concluding with my experience in shooting the one I owned. I tried to dispel a lot of bullshit, but don't think I was very successful. Read the whole thread. My report, near the end, is truthful and accurate as observed by my personal loading and shooting.

You can't horse the Kodiak. Use it as intended and you have a really fine double rifle. That's my conclusion in a nutshell. Others disagree.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=35243&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1

I sold my rifle, then bought it back, and then sold it again. You can have a look at it here:

http://www.rbsiii.com/collection/rifles/pedersoli_45_70/pedersoli_45_70.htm

I can give a enthusiastic endorsement of this rifle. It's a well made, reasonably priced double in a useful caliber. Don't buy one thinking it can be made into a dangerous game rifle. It cannot.

I always thought it was a great alternative for plinking in that it is cheap and pleasant to shoot and it takes the wear off my antique BP hammer guns. But then, I let it go.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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crkennedy1
.333 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 414
Loc: Utah
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: CptCurl]
      #154253 - 20/02/10 05:04 AM

Curl,

I have a question, since it sounds like you've shot the mentioned Kodiak 45-70. Wasn't that caliber originally developed to shoot the American bison? If so, why isn't it considered "enough gun" to kill a cape buffalo or lion? Just wondering.

Christopher

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING


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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
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Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: crkennedy1]
      #154257 - 20/02/10 05:20 AM

Quote:

Curl,

I have a question, since it sounds like you've shot the mentioned Kodiak 45-70. Wasn't that caliber originally developed to shoot the American bison? If so, why isn't it considered "enough gun" to kill a cape buffalo or lion? Just wondering.

Christopher




I think it was developed to shoot native americans, not bison.

But it will shoot a bison or cape buff, if its good at it thats another matter. With the load its regulated for its not that hard hitting, but it will bring one down eventually.

If it will go down before you or not, thats the difference of a DG rifle.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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okguy
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Reged: 07/07/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Oklahoma
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: crkennedy1]
      #154258 - 20/02/10 05:40 AM

I've had one in .45/70 since 1990. Mine is the older, Trail Guns Armory type with browned barrels that are quite heavy. The newer ones have slimmer, blued tubes from photos that I have seen.

Mine has two individual rear sights, each adjustable for windage and elevation. The rib has two dovetails, one for each sight. I have seen photos of some that have the folding leaves on a base so there must be some variations in production through the years.

Mine shoots best with the 405 grainers, but is okay with the 425s and 460s. The 405s shoot well whether at factory velocities or the higher ones shown below. The rifle likes both cast and jacketed bullets. The 525s spread apart too much (my 1895 Marlin likes them though) and I will not increase the velocities to attempt to bring them together on the target. I am not trying for maximum velocities. The results below might show increased velocities with other powders.

Average velocities out of the 24" bbls.:

1250 fps with a Remington 405 grain JFN Factory Load
1650 fps with a Remington 405 grain JFN
1700 fps with a Beartooth 405 grain HCGC
1730 fps with a Beartooth 425 grain HCGC
1650 fps with a CPC 460 grain HCGC
1500 fps with a Beartooth 525 grain HCGC

I wouldn't rechamber mine. It is nice as it is. It is far less expensive than an antique hammer gun. For the price, (I paid $1,500 with wood, leather and canvas case in 1990) it is a nice hunting double rifle for most things. For more power I will use my soon to be finished Searcy Field Grade double rifle in .450 Nitro Express.

--------------------
Use a double rifle. It just feels better.

Member - Double Rifle Shooters Society


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greenshoots
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Reged: 23/05/08
Posts: 120
Loc: uk
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: okguy]
      #154263 - 20/02/10 06:36 AM

folding leaves on a base
i have that variant and the action is quite capable of taking level 3 loads

regards
viv

Edited by greenshoots (20/02/10 06:38 AM)


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: greenshoots]
      #154267 - 20/02/10 08:01 AM

viv - That's level 3 as described by Ken Waters? The third level in most books are for modern & stronger actions like the Siamese Mauser bolt gun and Ruger #1's.
I can easily see it handling loads up to 43,500PSI, maybe even 50,000PSI, but would restrict it to those.
Those pressures will easily make 2,100 to 2,150fps with 350gr. bullets using the appropriate powders. At these speeds, the 350gr. Speer bullet would be super for anything in North America and many African animals, with it's 'over' 1/16" thick jacket.

The original .45/70 with 405gr. and 500gr. cast bullets at 1,320fps and 1,260fps repectively were good killers of bison - hostorical letters to Sharps, Remington and Ballard tell that story. It was outclassed on buffalo by the .50/70, .50/90 as well as the other longer cased .40's and .45's. The original BP loads were considered capable with the 500gr. issue loads to from 300 to 600yards. They had incredible penetration, boring a good sized hole while doing it. We have put similar loads through 3' diameter Spruce trees - it is impressive to see. No, I haven't shot any buffalo with it or any other round. Were I to get a tag, I would probably use my .45 1.9" Sharps with a 525gr. RN, load at about 1,500fps - about the same as a .45 2-7/8", the longest .45 Sharps ever chambered. That was the .45 120.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rolland
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Reged: 31/12/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Camp Verde, AZ
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: Slimbo]
      #154280 - 20/02/10 05:39 PM

I had one of the newer ones in 45-70 and really liked it. They are pretty heavy but that is ok as it helps absorb the recoil. I played around with a number of loads including black powder. The factory told me it was regulated for Remington 400 grain at 50 yards. I even tried some paper patch bullets. It would shoot 2 inch groups at 75 yards with most 400 grain or heavier bullets.
Due to the times I sold it but have kicked myself numerous times for that. All in all it is a very well made rifle, wood to metal was excellent as the blue finish, just a tad heavy for me. I might have kept it if I didn't already have 6 rifles in the same caliber and hadn't needed the money.


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GroovyMike
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 213
Loc: NY
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: Rolland]
      #174186 - 26/01/11 10:57 PM

Anybody know what these are selling for now. Someone with one asked what I'd be willing to pay for it.....

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4


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tarawa
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Reged: 21/10/07
Posts: 361
Loc: South Florida
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: GroovyMike]
      #174221 - 27/01/11 11:49 AM

I purchased a 45-70 for $1800, a 8 x 57 JRS for $2200 and a 9.3 x 74R for $2800.00. all good prices in my opinion. I like them as you can see.

--------------------
Life is for Service


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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2422
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: tarawa]
      #174222 - 27/01/11 12:15 PM

http://www.cherrys.com/ped_cart.htm

http://westernfirearms.com.au/firearms-for-sale-pedersoli-kodiak-93x74r-p-2339.html

http://buy.auctionarms.com/10135341/pede...-end-custom-gun

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3516

Google is your friend!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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hoser
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Reged: 06/01/10
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Loc: California, USA
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: AkMike]
      #187978 - 16/08/11 04:12 AM

Would standard pressure loads for 45-70 be sufficient for black bear protection (and of course pig hunting)?

I'm in CA and need to shoot lead free ammunition, but I'm not a reloader. I noticed Cor Bon makes an all copper load as well as Double Tap (that says it's for standard pressures). I was looking at a Marlin lever gun, but this may be more fun!


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greenshoots
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoser]
      #187979 - 16/08/11 04:59 AM

sold mine about 3 months only found it to heavy, just got around to replacing it have ordered the new pedersoli 1886/71 in 444 marlin............

greenshoots


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 10240
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoser]
      #187982 - 16/08/11 05:46 AM

Quote:

Would standard pressure loads for 45-70 be sufficient for black bear protection (and of course pig hunting)?

I'm in CA and need to shoot lead free ammunition, but I'm not a reloader. I noticed Cor Bon makes an all copper load as well as Double Tap (that says it's for standard pressures). I was looking at a Marlin lever gun, but this may be more fun!




The Cor Bon loads or any factory level load will easily kill bears and pigs, even with low velocity, low pressure loads.

The original BP carbine and rifle loads killed many thousands or hundreds of thousands of buffalo and the bears and pigs are easier than bison.

A factory level RP 405gr. will actually about duplicate the results of a 300gr. Swift in ballistic media - just ask 9.3x57. THAT was a surprise to me, too. Makes me appreciate my Sharps .45/60 even more (loads like a long .45/70).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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hoser
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Posts: 86
Loc: California, USA
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #187990 - 16/08/11 08:11 AM

I like that there are factory lead free, all copper loaded ammo in 45-70.

The 9.3x74R was hard to come by with only Federal offering loaded ammo in all copper.


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoser]
      #187992 - 16/08/11 09:37 AM

A friend of mine shoots Federal 165gr. tSX factory ammo in his RP .30/06- 5/8" for 2 consectutive 3 shot groups at 100 meters. Incredible - the Federal 165 Fusions which he uses for practise, same poi, shoot 3/8" - and worked for deer, and sheep - while he used the TSX for elk - all same fall.
I watched him shoot a 3 shot group of 1 1/2" at 234yards with the TSX.

Says to me, Fed factory ammo is pretty good.
Personally, I'd handload, of course - or start. It's really expensive to shoot factory, even more so if you're shooting solid copper factory ammo.

The ammo prices are usually higher that what box of 50 bullets costs and you only get 20.

Usually the more the ammo costs, the less shooting a guy does - when the direct opposite should be happening - more shooting, especially with a DR.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
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Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #188068 - 18/08/11 01:04 AM

I have a Pedersoli double in 45-70 and have found it to be a heavy but well built rifle.
Any thoughts about shooting factory ammo is going to be luck of the draw, you might find something that regulates and you might not.My rifle is shooting very well with a cast 425 gr. bullet at around 1770 fps-it will do about as well with jacketed bullets around 400 grs.The recoil is getting heavy in this range so have not tried anything heavier.I can tell you that the cast load mentioned will penetrate a bison through the shoulders completely and regard it as sufficient for all north american game-big bears and all.Africa is a different story. There are a number of guys whom have used 45-70 lever rifles on cape buffalo with sucess but I find it to be a marginal choice at best
in that league-You make a good first shot and it likely won't get dicey, if it don't come out that way you had better trust your PH strongly.

Another thing to know about double rifles is that they are not like bolt rifles are for accuracy.
you can't shoot just anything in them and expect good regulation.As mine works out 1770 fps works out pretty well for 400 to 425 grain bullets-cast or jacketed with a velocity window of plus or minus 20 to 25 fps starting out.Slower and the hits spread apart on the target and faster they
cross.Mine was regulated at 50 yards and with my best load on a good day when the nut on the
trigger is tight and well lubricated (LOL)this rifle prints the holes almost perfectly level and
just under 3/4" apart at 50 yards. At 100 yards they are not crossing but it is diffucult to do precise shooting with open sights and aging eyes.For this reason I have just made up a sight base
and mounted it on the rib over the weekend.My rings should be here today. Maybe I can get it going again with a scope-hope so because it would be fun to use again and actually be able to hit
something.I have macula degeneration and the front sight is just a blur.

--------------------
BigMike


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Birdhunter50
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Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoosier]
      #191524 - 09/10/11 11:40 PM

Mike,
I was looking through some older posts and found your posting about your 45/70 and a scope mount for it. How did you get along with it? I have used Leupold pistol mounts with the Leupold rings that twist in, It works well but you have to drill and tap at least two holes in the top rib. I have also been machining a couple of mounting blocks from material I bought from Brownells made by a company called the Moulds Co. I usually notch the rib for them and have them welded on before installing the rib. I did just finish up a 12 gauge slug gun though, that I notched the rib after installation and put two alien head screws in to hold them down, then used Leupold lever set QD rings on with them and that worked out very well. The iron sights can still be seen when the scope is off but with the mounts still in place. Good luck with your project and with your eyesight! Bob


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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
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Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #191530 - 10/10/11 01:52 AM

As to my scope project on the pedersoli itmade a noticable change in the regulation.My next idea is to mount the scope lower as I suspect it will help the problem. I have gotten a pair of hammers for it to modify to ease cocking with the scope mounted low.Havent done anything with it yet. Seven weeks ago I had a unexpected surgery and am just beginning to get going again.Had a rectal bleed and ended up losing 18 inches of colon and 7 pints of blood.No cancer, just a perferrated colon. I just shot a little with a smaller gun yesteday for the first time since surgery.Hopefully more to come inthe next few weeks with the double rifle- it is still too heavy for me to handle.

--------------------
BigMike


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Birdhunter50
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoosier]
      #191610 - 11/10/11 07:52 AM

Mike,
I think you will find that if you can get it mounted low to the bores and use the lightest scope you can, that it won't affect your points of impact as bad. It also helps to try and get the scope mounted right over the balance point on your gun, if possible. Bob


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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
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Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #191614 - 11/10/11 12:22 PM

Birdhunter
My setup is pretty well on the balance point and the scope is not heavy or bulky , nice and short.
It is a 1 x 3 x 20mm weaver aluminum tube-real short and light. I am in the process of modifying my hammers (a spare set) for clearance and re-working the base. Hopefully it will be a done deal by the time snow flys.

--------------------
BigMike


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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
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Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoosier]
      #199087 - 10/01/12 11:48 AM

I finally got out today since the weather was pleasant to check the work on my lowered and revamped scope setup.Things worked out pretty well this time.With a scope to help see the target the rifle is more accurate than I remembered-around 1 inch apart give or take at 100 yards with remington 300 gr.hp's and 405 gr. fp.s.-all that is needed is elevation adjustment of course, windage is fine.
I have bolt rifles that won't do that well at the same distance.Looks like a real keeper.

--------------------
BigMike


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Daryl_S
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoosier]
      #199142 - 11/01/12 06:30 AM

Sounds good! I'd not use 300's unless I was deer shooting only and would normally go for the heavier 405gr. right off the bat. For 405gr. RP load performance, check with 9.3x57. He's done some steer head testing with it and it's peformance was MOST surprising, especially when compared with the 300gr. Swift results from his .375H&H.

In that DR, you can actually drive the 405gr. RP's, using handloads, to an easily accomplished 1,800fps with safe loads. Experimentation with handloads and how they shoot, is up to you.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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Birdhunter50
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Re: Pedersoli Kodiak MkIV double rifle 45-70 [Re: hoosier]
      #201722 - 05/02/12 11:31 AM

Mike,
It sounds like congratulations are in order. I'm glad you got it shooting so well, there are many doubles out there that will not shoot that well and some of them cost many times over what your gun cost you. I think you will love it for deer or anything else you decide to hunt with it.I hope you are all healed up and doing well since your surgery.
Bob


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