Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: OSR thread - quick poll

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
OSR thread - quick poll
      #154083 - 18/02/10 05:26 AM

A


B


C


D
So which would you choose, if you were worried about OSR?
You may choose only one
A
B
C
D
Other


Votes accepted from (18/02/10 05:25 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #154084 - 18/02/10 05:30 AM

Whichever one fit the internal dimensions of the barrel.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 9.3x57]
      #154090 - 18/02/10 06:10 AM

Paper patch lead

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 9.3x57]
      #154091 - 18/02/10 06:17 AM

Quote:

Whichever one fit the internal dimensions of the barrel.




I went with A, as it's mostly to do the above.

Until I fired some Woodleigh Hydro's through my 465 DR,
I had never fired a mono. And I only did that because they wanted some DR recoveries and Geoff from Woodleigh said it
would be OK !!!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 450_366]
      #154092 - 18/02/10 06:32 AM

I drive my car with standard acceleration and at normal speeds. If I chose to drive my car by flooring the gas pedal from every stop then I would expect it to take a toll on the car. Service life for a car driven normally is much longer than the service life of one sometimes driven like a race car. You can't expect anything else.

If I was worried about OSR then I wouldn't shoot any monometal bullets at all. If I ever felt the need and fired some through my double then I would consider any OSR that developed to be part of fair wear and tear. As for my rifles, I'll stick to shooting regular bullets. I bet a rifle bore would last hundreds of years if you only shot marshmallows out of it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39903
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: Grenadier]
      #154101 - 18/02/10 09:23 AM

I'm happy to stick the Woodleigh projectiles and wary of using monos, 1.) because they are not needed where I hunt, ie a lead free ban and 2.) if Woodleighs have worked in the past without problems why risk a hundred year old rifle for no purpose.

Lead free bans are the only reason I would consider using a mono bullet in an old rifle.

Secondly, the Woodleigh bullet in the picture above is a FMJ. I believe they recommend to use FMJ's sparingly as well, as the jacket can be quite solid as well.

I prefer to use the SPs instead and FMJ's only during load development and during actual hunts where an FMJ is required.

I would use monometal, banded bullets in stout barrelled bolt action rifles however, if I felt the need.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
404bearslayer
.300 member


Reged: 28/04/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Germany
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: NitroX]
      #154338 - 21/02/10 02:56 PM

Clearly B (the GS Custom FN Solid):

a) Fairly soft copper, which is easily displaced by the rifling to begin with, regardless of drive-bands

b) Main body of bullet is not displaced at all or only slightly (depending on particular bore), only drive -bands are displaced. Those bands can be a lot less massive then in Barnes bullets as GS Custom bullets are turned (instead of pressed, as with Barnes)

c) Flat-Nose design minimizes tumbling and increases wound-cavity (both effects furthered by softness of material which causes the head to depress on impact - that also reduces breaking / bending and creates a very stable weight-forward shape in tissue).

d) Because of their reduced friction (band-design) they create a substantially shallower initial pressure curve. A steep pressure curve is every gun's enemy and created by ALL hard bullets (traditional FMJ as well as regular mono-metals, even when undersized which minimizes the problem, but does not entirely cure it).

It is the only 'solid' I load in my .470 NE up to a clocked speed of 2250 f/s ( 500 grain) (non-moly version, by the way): Recoil is not much worse then regular Federal factory FMJ at clocked 2089 f/s, while a comparison of the cases shows clearly which load produces a steeper initial curve: Factory cases - flat primer, very severe flaring of the case above the case web / GSC load - no flattened primer, flaring above case web very benign. I would load neither a Woodleigh FMJ nor a Barnes solid to those speeds (2250 f/s) in my double. Added benefit for DR owners with the GSC - does create substantially less friction, hence heat, which lessens regulation issues.

Edited by 404bearslayer (21/02/10 03:00 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 404bearslayer]
      #154341 - 21/02/10 03:37 PM

My pick is 'other'



I'm not particularly worried about OSR as I don't need ultra-hard bullets and I don't hunt in no-lead zones.
If I were pressed to have only lead-free hunting zones to choose from I'd start the path down OSR-free/lead-free bullet design.

I don't own a nitro double rifle.
As yet I don't know of anyone speaking up on unleaded bullets for black powder bore rifles and black powder express rifles (with pre-nitro era steel and damascus barrels)

There would have to be some kind of definite 'other' solution for safe and consistent running in the pre-nitro rifles that would work out for regulation loads in my rifles.



I'm happy to listen to good answers to the pre-nitro double rifle 'unleaded question'




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gerard
.224 member


Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: N/A
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: tinker]
      #154519 - 23/02/10 02:09 AM

Interesting. Why does everybody assume that OSR is caused by one particular type of manufactured bullet? All the evidence points to the fact that it is the use of the double that causes OSR and not the use of a particular bullet type. If the bulk of the evidence is considered, the finger should be pointing to another type of bullet, rather than monos and specifically not to drive band bullets.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: Gerard]
      #154522 - 23/02/10 02:18 AM

Quote:

Interesting. Why does everybody assume that OSR is caused by one particular type of manufactured bullet? All the evidence points to the fact that it is the use of the double that causes OSR and not the use of a particular bullet type. If the bulk of the evidence is considered, the finger should be pointing to another type of bullet, rather than monos and specifically not to drive band bullets.





?????

Well spit it out.

Explain further your thoughts ?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39903
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: Gerard]
      #154524 - 23/02/10 02:21 AM

Quote:

All the evidence points to the fact that it is the use of the double that causes OSR and not the use of a particular bullet type.



I don't even understand this sentence let alone what all the "evidence" is.

Quote:

If the bulk of the evidence is considered,...



Again, "bulk of evidence", please share.

Quote:

... the finger should be pointing to another type of bullet, rather than monos and specifically not to drive band bullets.



Please name.

Note the key words above are "evidence", and that is what I expect to see.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: NitroX]
      #154526 - 23/02/10 02:29 AM


I voted "A"... I did it out of ignorance really. When in doubt, I`D rather play safe with a vintage doublerifle.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gerard
.224 member


Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: N/A
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: rigbymauser]
      #154530 - 23/02/10 03:00 AM

I am saying that monos are being blamed for causing OSR. I do not understand this because all the rifles that are mentioned as exhibiting OSR, were not fired exclusively with monos.
Some were fired with lead core bullets and never with monos. Some were fired with lead core bullets and with monos. None were fired with monos only. Many rifles that were fired extensively with monos show no sign of OSR.

So this sentence means exactly what it says: "All the evidence points to the fact that it is the use of the double that causes OSR and not the use of a particular bullet type."

Simply put: Use a double and it may develop OSR, regardless of what type of bullet is used.

Quote:

Note the key words above are "evidence", and that is what I expect to see.

Surely you do not expect me to go fetch the quotes from the various threads and list them one by one?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: Gerard]
      #154533 - 23/02/10 03:05 AM


Gerard,

I hate to say this, but BS.

If that was the case, I would think that out of 20 or so DR's that I have used / own, just by the numbers / percentages, one of them would have developed OSR.

Now add all the DR's used in the BGRC Comp, the same would apply and a hell of a lot of shots get fired through DR's here in Aust.

Sorry, don't agree with you.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39903
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 500Nitro]
      #154534 - 23/02/10 03:09 AM

I think my definition of what "evidence" means is a far higher standard. I thought Gerard you had scientific evidence from studies of actually shooting bullets through a test rifle?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27022
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: NitroX]
      #154535 - 23/02/10 03:20 AM

Be safe - don't shoot any factory ammo - cast your own bullets. Buy Veral Smith's book "jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets and revel in how 'nice' you're being to your double rifle.
Yes - properly hardened lead bullets can give exactly "FMJ" or "Stiff Softpoint" or "Lion Loads". It's easy and simple with a very short learning curve.

It is so cheap to shoot, anyone can actually afford to practise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Something few DR shooters do much of, I'll wager - expecially at over $5.00 per shot (some many times over).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gerard
.224 member


Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: N/A
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: NitroX]
      #154536 - 23/02/10 03:32 AM

500Nitro
Quote:

I hate to say this, but BS.

I don't think you hate saying it, it is said too easily.

Out of all the many doubles you have fired and seen fired, none have developed OSR. Have you seen OSR?

NitroX,
Scientific evidence on OSR does not exist. All of it is hearsay, anecdotal and subjective opinion. I am saying that, if all this hearsay, anecdotal and subjective opinion is considered collectively, it does not point to monos being the culprit. How can it, if OSR has been seen on doubles that have never been fired with monos?

Edited by Gerard (23/02/10 03:33 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: Gerard]
      #154538 - 23/02/10 03:36 AM

Quote:

500Nitro
Quote:

I hate to say this, but BS.

I don't think you hate saying it, it is said too easily.

Out of all the many doubles you have fired and seen fired,




Yes, I have actually see it - OSR, and if you read back through my posts on here and AR, I know my shit and don't comment unless I do.

And you are right, I have no problem calling BS when I see it.

If what you said was true, then a far larger number of DR's in use in the word would have OSR - and as much as it is hard to see, the fact that DR's tend to get handed around at shoots for people to drool over, someone would notice it.

Show me the evidence and I will believe you because ATM your theory is based on the hot air coming out of your mouth.

Edited by 500Nitro (23/02/10 04:02 AM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 500Nitro]
      #154541 - 23/02/10 03:59 AM

Quote:

Scientific evidence on OSR does not exist. All of it is hearsay, anecdotal and subjective opinion. I am saying that, if all this hearsay, anecdotal and subjective opinion is considered collectively, it does not point to monos being the culprit. How can it, if OSR has been seen on doubles that have never been fired with monos?




Wait a minute! If "scientific evidence on OSR does not exist", how is it that "OSR has been seen on doubles that have never been fired with monos."

It's fundamental that visual observation is one of the best used tools of scientific research.

Those two statements are mutually exclusive. That's BS for sure.

Gerard, are you saying that OSR is imaginary? Have you personally observed it? Tell us the basis for your comments. Isn't that what 500N is asking for? Simply the facts that underly your statements and opinions. Won't you share them?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: CptCurl]
      #154543 - 23/02/10 04:05 AM


Gerard

Since you asked me, here's a couple of questions.


1. Have you seen OSR ?

Where, what DR, what was the background ??????

2. Explain to us your detailed knowledge and experience
of DR's, bullets, bullet contruction etc so we know as it seems to me that you are doing a bit of TROLLING.


Now this is a HUNTING Forum, their are plenty of FISHING forums on line.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: CptCurl]
      #154544 - 23/02/10 04:06 AM

Let me follow-up by saying this. I genuinely hope that banded copper bullets can be proven safe for double rifles. Two reasons: they evidently can perform quite well; and the world may be headed to no-lead projectiles.

Nevertheless, it is incumbant upon the bullet manufacturers to establish the safety of their products. Too many DR's have been damaged. The facts point directly to solid copper bullets, no matter what Gerard says. I'll be damned if I will happily take it on faith that the banded design cured this malady.

So bullet makers, step up to the plate and prove the safety of your products.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: CptCurl]
      #154546 - 23/02/10 04:11 AM

Quote:

Let me follow-up by saying this. I genuinely hope that banded copper bullets can be proven safe for double rifles. Two reasons: they evidently can perform quite well; and the world may be headed to no-lead projectiles.

Nevertheless, it is incumbant upon the bullet manufacturers to establish the safety of their products. Too many DR's have been damaged. The facts point directly to solid copper bullets, no matter what Gerard says. I'll be damned if I will happily take it on faith that the banded design cured this malady.

So bullet makers, step up to the plate and prove the safety of your products.

Curl




Curl

I think Woodleigh are "stepping up to the plate" with the Hydrostatic bullets.

Hell, even I did the impossible the other month and fired some through one of my DR's since they wanted some DR recoveries !!! LOL (Albeit after talking with Geoff from Woodleigh).


I will say one thing - I still think it is more VITAL if going to use banded bullets that you slug the bores of your DR's before shooting to make sure that the Main shaft of the banded bullet doesn't engage the rifling.

I think with all the variations in bore diameters of DR's, this is even more important when using these bullets.

Just my HO but I knew the bore diamter of my 500/465 before I used the Woodleigh Hydro's and they knew the shank / shaft diameter so I went ahead and did it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gerard
.224 member


Reged: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: N/A
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 500Nitro]
      #154549 - 23/02/10 04:36 AM

If you guys cannot keep a civil tongue then I am out of here. I did not start the OSR debate, I was interested in getting to the bottom of it and I have more experience than what you, 500Nitro, can imagine. I have repaired my share of doubles as a 'smith let alone handled and shot a couple.

I have not been rude to anyone and I am beyond the stage where I need to take abuse from anyone here.

Quote:

Wait a minute! If "scientific evidence on OSR does not exist", how is it that "OSR has been seen on doubles that have never been fired with monos."

That is anecdotal evidence, not scientific evidence.

I hope you sort your heads out on OSR and what causes it, at the moment it is all talk, no action and even less logic.

Cheers.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: Gerard]
      #154550 - 23/02/10 04:40 AM

Quote:



I hope you sort your heads out on OSR and what causes it, at the moment it is all talk, no action and even less logic.

Cheers.




Yep, done most of that - load and shoot Woodleigh's
and be done with it - and go hunting.

That way I won't have to take any action other than
going hunting.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: OSR thread - quick poll [Re: 500Nitro]
      #154551 - 23/02/10 04:48 AM

Gerard, are you saying that OSR is imaginary? Have you personally observed it? Tell us the basis for your comments. Isn't that what 500N is asking for? Simply the facts that underly your statements and opinions. Won't you share them?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 814 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 14480

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved