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hoser
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Reged: 06/01/10
Posts: 86
Loc: California, USA

Scope recommendation?
#153770 - 15/02/10 10:46 AM

Looking for a scope recommendation for my Chapuis sxs 9.3x74R. I have a standard crosshair Leupold 1.5X5 sitting in the safe. That may work, but am open to other suggestions (1" vs 30mm, fixed vs variable, illuminated or not, ect). Thanks.

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404bearslayer
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: hoser]
#153777 - 15/02/10 11:36 AM

Swarovski Z6i 1-6 x 24 EE (illuminated with extended eye relief)

Goes down to 1x, so you can shoot with both eyes open at moving game, at 6x you can do distance shooting, faint dot for shooting at night, flash dot for shooting during daylight at moving game. Biggest eye relief of any scope currently on the market.

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calpappas
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: 404bearslayer]
#153792 - 15/02/10 01:45 PM

404's scope is great. I have a Swarovski 1.25-4 30mm on my .450-400 and have taken lots of game in Africa and Alaska with it. Personally I feel a European scope looks best on a double but the cost may not justify it. a 30mm sure brings in more light.
Cheers,
Cal Pappas

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crkennedy1
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: calpappas]
#153808 - 15/02/10 04:29 PM

Leupold 1.5X5 - Holds up the best with the big bores

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING

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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: crkennedy1]
#153814 - 15/02/10 07:32 PM

Hi hoser,

As I said before, S&B 1.1-4x24 Zenith with the FD7 illuminated reticle works brilliantly and looks the part and has great field of view, 36 meters @ 100 meters @ 1.1. Check out their website re the FD7 reticle. www.schmidtbender.com

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

--------------------

"Travel Light, Travel Fast and carry a Big Bore"

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Charls
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: hoser]
#153820 - 15/02/10 09:24 PM

I see that the Leupold is quite popular- however it is not to be recommended. A friend of mine, Carl, has had 2 VX3 1.5-5x20 go bust on him. He had them mounted on a .458WM, the 1st one broke after +/- 250 shots, it was replaced by a new one that he bought while the other one was off to Leupold for repairs) and that packed up after 150 shots, 1 week before his buffalo hunt. Both have been returned to Leupold and their response has been extremely dissapointing. No refund, no new scopes and in fact it was said to him that (by Garth Kendig of Leupold) the scope was better to use on 375 or similar calibers. Huh??? He was then told to try their FX2 2.5x Ultralight. Like he would ever trust a Leupold again, especially on a rifle built for dangerous game hunting! These scopes were to ensure a SAFE AND RELIABLE hunt that was, a once in a lifetime opportunity, was very expensive, and possibly dangerous and the best Leupold could do was to recommend another scope. Imagine the liability to Leupold if something happened during a follow-up. So much for lifetime gaurantee.
Regards,
Charl

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pablo_mauser_66
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: Charls]
#153822 - 15/02/10 09:39 PM

Meopta Meostar 1-4x22 K-dot, field of view 37m/100m, 4 inches of eye relief, arguably the best value Euro glass for light transmission just beneath Swarovski/Diavari/Khales. I will be getting one of these when I finish my 404J, hopefully later this year.

Cheers Steve

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FATBOY404
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: pablo_mauser_66]
#153824 - 15/02/10 10:19 PM

I think every scope maker has some bad stories.
I have had a Meopta that wouldn't hold zero & was replaced.
A Leupold that came apart inside and was repaired.
A mate had a whole turret fall off a Khales and was repaired.

If you beleive what you read Leupold has beefed up the new VX-3's. As a percentage I dont think Leupold has a great deal more failures than other company's. I still beleive quality starts at Leupold. Personally I want to spend the extra $1500 on hunting but if money was no object I would own all European scope's. I will be putting a VX-3 1.5-5x20 with German 4 reticle on my 404 to take to Africa and if it fails I will use the express sights I paid a lot of money to have regulated and fitted !!!.

That's only my opinion.

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"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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sambarstalker
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Reged: 07/12/09
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: pablo_mauser_66]
#153825 - 15/02/10 11:02 PM

G´day Hoser

I have a Zeiss Diavari on my 9.3. You may need to fit a rubber slip-on pad for the stock. I would also suggest you look at Quick detachable mounts, preferably the spring loaded type, so the line of the scope is not too high. If you are as old as me, you would need a good scope. My days of iron sights have long since gone. You would only need 1 - 6 x magnification, I think for most shots.

A scope is something that can be moved from rifle to rifle, so it´s worth getting a good one. I am not so keen on the Kahles, but Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender and Swarovski are, I think good brands.

I had a Leupold on a .458 and it fell to pieces.

Cheers, sambarstalker

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xausa
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: sambarstalker]
#153833 - 16/02/10 01:24 AM

I'm amazed at the Leupold horror stories. I have used Leupold scopes, in particular the 1.5-5X Vari-X III for years with never a bobble. Does anyone know what the nature of the problem was? Saying the scope "fell to pieces" is not very informative.

My objection to European scopes in general is best illustrated here: http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2654715

The scope mounted on the rifle completely overpowers it, and if that were not enough, there is an even larger scope waiting in the wings. I have no idea what the eye relief of these behemoths might be, but the way they are mounted they are almost guaranteed to come into contact with the shooter's forehead.

My .458 Winchester Magnum and .450 Watts bolt guns both have Lyman Alaskans mounted, and my .577 bolt gun has a 2 1/2X Noske: nothing like 1930's technology. What those two scopes have in common with their contemporary Zeiss Zielklein, other than the 22mm diameter bodies, is their extreme light weight (8 oz. in the case of the Noske and the Alaskan, and 10 oz. for the Zielklein), which offers the least resistance to heavy recoil. A scope like those pictured in the eGun auction represents an amount of weight (mass) which is guaranteed to put a terrific strain on the mounts used in combination with rifles and cartridges generating significant recoil.

Would the posters with bad experiences with Leupold scopes please give precise descriptions of what went wrong and what the circumstances were?

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: xausa]
#153853 - 16/02/10 05:36 AM

I'll be interested to hear too Xausa. A couple of people on here have said they have had Leupold problems and while I have an S&B on the double I have 2 Leopold scopes that have never given me any problem whatsoever and I am always reading that their after service and warranty are UNEQUALLED anywhere. I would be very surprised if any of their VXII or VXIII models have given any problems assuming they were on decent mounts, best, Mike

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DarylS
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#153854 - 16/02/10 05:42 AM

The only problems with Leupolds I've seen, is nil, while 'almost' every Zeiss exposed to a wet 10 day hunt has fogged. Swaroski's also stayed clear, as did Bushnel 3200's and 4200's.
I have seen guys come in from a day's -35 moose hunt with their cheap muzzleloading production rifles (I'm being nice calling them rifles), remove the barrel from the stock and shove the breech, including the ocular lense of a 4X Leuy into almost boiling hot water right off the top of a wood stove, yet never saw one fog or fail - frightening to watch.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AkMike
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: DarylS]
#153864 - 16/02/10 07:00 AM

Hoser's already got a piece of the best glass around sitting in his safe.. IMO Use it!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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hoser
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: AkMike]
#153875 - 16/02/10 10:16 AM

Yeah, I'll probably use until it breaks!

It seems to be the right power. I kind of wish it was illuminated, but it's paid for so what the heck! I'll just pick up some 1" rings and mounts!

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AkMike
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: hoser]
#153876 - 16/02/10 10:46 AM

I'd be very surprised if you have problems with it on your 9.3.. I sure like it on mine.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Paul
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: calpappas]
#153899 - 16/02/10 10:16 PM

Quote:

Personally I feel a European scope looks best on a double but the cost may not justify it.

I wouldn't have minded spending the money for a Swarovski for the .450/.400, Cal. It was the $2500 Heym wanted for the mount that called my bluff.

- Paul

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bonanza
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: Paul]
#153902 - 16/02/10 11:56 PM

I like the Leopold 2x7

--------------------

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"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Charls
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: xausa]
#153903 - 16/02/10 11:57 PM

Xausa,
The 1st scope lost focus and when removed from the gun and you shook it, something was loose inside the scope. The 2nd one also lost focus and the magnifier wouldn't move. The 1st scope has since been returned from Leupold (after 3 months) and the service report says 'retor system replaced'. The 2nd scope has not been returned from Leupold. By the way, the scopes were mounted on a Mauser 98 with Lynx mounts (Australian).
Regards,
Charl

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DM
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: Charls]
#154199 - 19/02/10 12:35 PM

After 25 years of HARD hunting all over Alaska, for weeks at a time, i've yet to have a Leupold or Zeiss scope fog internally or fail in any way. I just bought a new scope last week for my Chapuis, and i bought a Leupold VX111 1.75-6x32. I'll bet you it will be just like all the rest of the Leupolds i've had over the years, and work perfectly.

If it doesn't, i WILL report exactly what happened on this forum, but i've seen so many Leupolds work perfectly, i have full confidence in my purchase.

DM

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Birdhunter50
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: hoser]
#154303 - 21/02/10 02:55 AM

Hoser,
Use the scope you've got, it is plenty tough enough for the caliber. I have owned around a dozen Leupold scopes and have never had any fogging problems or other breakdowns with any of them. I once bought a 12 power target scope from a friend who didn't have any faith in them fixing it up for him. It had the target dot reticle in it and the reticle was broken. I called their service department and asked them what it would cost to fix it. The lady on the other end told me to send it to them, insured and well packed. I asked again what it would cost me and she replied that it would only cost me the shipping to get it to them. I mailed it out to them and paid the shipping one way only, they fixed it, and went completely through it, and sent it back to me in about a month like new, at their expense. Other than this one time, that's the only repairs I have had done and was told they stand behind all their products whether you buy them new or used! I was grateful and pleasantly surprised by their lifetime repair or replacement policy. You don't find that much any more with any company. Bob H.

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9dot3x74R
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: Birdhunter50]
#154413 - 22/02/10 08:24 AM

Has anyone tried mounting a handgun scope on a double?

I like the idea of being able to mount it without the ocular protruding past the barrels, it would be much neater and I think a handgun scope would have the correct eye relief. Possibly a 2x fixed Leupold?

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404bearslayer
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: 9dot3x74R]
#154422 - 22/02/10 10:32 AM

9dot3x74R,

before you do that, try an AIMPOINT, made for rifles, very light and eye relief not an issue.

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nopride2
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Loc: Seattle, Wa.

Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: 404bearslayer]
#154436 - 22/02/10 11:31 AM

I had a problem with a Leupold 1.5 X 5 on my .375. It would go out of focus at 5X. Sent it to Leupold, they returned it in about a week, fixed. I recomended the same scope to a buddy. It's mounted on a Ruger #1 45-70 shooting Elmer's load. After a few shots at 50 yards It would suddenly shoot 4 inches low. Adjust the scope, shoot a few shots 4 inches low again. Sent the scope to Leupold. They returned it with a note that said there was nothing wrong with the scope. Now, the elevation adjustment is screwed up. It gives half to three quarters movement than indicated on the turret. Sometimes it gives no adjustment. This was while trying to get 6 inches of elevation correction. I've used Leupold scopes for over 50 years, but now I'm going to think real hard about switching.

Dave

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eagle27
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: nopride2]
#154475 - 22/02/10 05:02 PM

9dot3x74R
The 2x EER Leupold pistol scope will work fine on a double. They were made for heavy recoiling pistols so will stand up to the knocks on a rifle. I have exactly this model mounted forward on my Mauser .404J and it has given no problems in over thirty years.

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calpappas
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: eagle27]
#156138 - 11/03/10 06:18 PM

Paul:
2500$ for a mount and rings? Wow! I had JJ at Champlin do the same on my .450-400 Harrison and Hussey ejector double and it was 800$. JJ is a combination artist/gunsmith.

I hated to add a scope to a vintage double but my old eyes need at least one scoped rifle in my golden years. I can shoot up to 100 yards with open sights on my larger caliber doubles with good set of glasses but for plains game and cats I needed the scope.

Cal

--------------------
_______________________________________________________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
Cal's Log
CalPappas.com

_______________________________________________________________________

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ozhunter
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: calpappas]
#156143 - 11/03/10 06:49 PM

A simple but strong Schmidt & Bender 4x36 steel tube with No4 Reticle.

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Paul
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: calpappas]
#156285 - 12/03/10 08:08 PM

Quote:

Paul:
2500$ for a mount and rings? Wow! I had JJ at Champlin do the same on my .450-400 Harrison and Hussey ejector double and it was 800$. JJ is a combination artist/gunsmith.

Thanks Cal,
I did think about getting something mounted here with German claw mounts but ones that fit seem a bit thin on the ground. The trouble and expense of sending it over to JJ and getting it back might be more than I can afford, too. Also, I spent the money on the safari - so maybe I'll just sell the rifle and get some peace and quiet at home.

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DM
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Re: Scope recommendation? [Re: Paul]
#156315 - 13/03/10 03:43 AM

I had JJ do this one for me,

DM

Edited by CptCurl (14/03/10 11:22 PM)

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carpediem4570
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: calpappas]
#156324 - 13/03/10 05:45 AM

Greetings from Alberta, Canada:

I read your reply regarding the use of a handgun scope on a dr. I have an older Antonio Zoli side by side in 9.3x74 R that I am trying to work loads for. The iron sights on this gun are so low that I have to grind my cheek into the stock to see them. The resulting pain from pulling the trigger was too much to bear.

I had my gunsmith dovetail into the rib a set of Dave Talley bases. To this I attached the Dave Talley rings and mounted a Leupold intermediate eye relief, 2 power pistol scope, with the back of the scope being flush with the breach face.

There is no interference from the scope when dropping cartridges into the chamber.

HOWEVER, you must remember that pistol scopes are designed to be parallax free to approximately 50 metres.

I have removed this scope and placed a 3-9 Zeiss conquest in its place to work up a load for the rifle. I am trying to get a load to work out to 100 metres. The original target that came with the rifle has two bullets touching and this was done at 100 metres.

Once the proper load has been found for the rifle, I will be putting the 2-power intermediate eye relief scope back on.

I have some pictures of the rifle on this sight under this forum. If you check under my handle, carpediem4570, you should be able to pull up a pic of the rifle and pistol scope.

I hope this has been of some help.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem4570

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"

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9dot3x74R
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: carpediem4570]
#156344 - 13/03/10 07:22 AM

Quote:

......
I have some pictures of the rifle on this sight under this forum. If you check under my handle, carpediem4570, you should be able to pull up a pic of the rifle and pistol scope.

Is this it.......

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post131951

If it is, the photos have expired unfortunately. Do you have any others?

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carpediem4570
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: 9dot3x74R]
#156347 - 13/03/10 08:24 AM

Yup:

that was it.

I will take more pics and download.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem4570

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"

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carpediem4570
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: carpediem4570]
#156355 - 13/03/10 01:33 PM

Hello again:

Here are photos of my Antonio Zoli 9.3x74R side by side dr with the leupold ier scope mounted in a forward position. the rear bell is in line with the breach face.

Kindest regards,

carpediem4570

Edited by CptCurl (14/03/10 11:25 PM)

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9dot3x74R
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: carpediem4570]
#156364 - 13/03/10 04:24 PM

Very nice.

Is the 50m parallax really an issue do you think?

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carpediem4570
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: 9dot3x74R]
#156377 - 13/03/10 06:03 PM

As regards paralax, I haven't done enough shooting with the scope rifle combination to determine if it is an issue. My hope is to get a load developed for this rifle to shoot to 100m and if necessary, out to 200 m with an aimed and steady shot using the set trigger.

Once I develop the load, I should then be able to determine if paralax is an issue.

AS an aside, I talked with the Leupold representitive in our area and he assured me that the leupold 2.5 power scout scope would do everything the 2 power ier pistol scope would do, without the paralax issue. the eye relief on the scout scope is more than sufficient to mount the bell in line or forward of the breach face.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem4570

--------------------
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"

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Paul
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: carpediem4570]
#156559 - 15/03/10 07:34 PM

That ring around the front bell looks good, DM. My only prob is that, like
Sunday, JJ is too far away.

Your set-up looks fast and sturdy, carpediem. The lack of QR levers should not be too much of a problem on a 9.3. Were parallax to raise its head, you could use a leather monte-carlo cheekpiece to raise yours, if it didn't affect regulation. I see Cabela's had some on sale last week.

Cheers
- Paul

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DM
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: Paul]
#156598 - 16/03/10 03:28 AM

Quote:

That ring around the front bell looks good, DM. My only prob is that, like
Sunday, JJ is too far away.

Your set-up looks fast and sturdy, carpediem. The lack of QR levers should not be too much of a problem on a 9.3. Were parallax to raise its head, you could use a leather monte-carlo cheekpiece to raise yours, if it didn't affect regulation. I see Cabela's had some on sale last week.

Cheers
- Paul

I would be absolutely amazed that there's no one in "your" part of the world that can't properly install a claw mount! I think they are well worth the time and trouble it takes to have one installed.

DM

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carpediem4570
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Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: DM]
#156603 - 16/03/10 04:09 AM

Hello Paul:

Interesting that you noticed it was not QD. I had purchased the QD mount from Talley but when I went to attach the scope to the gun, the levers would hit the barrels, not allowing me to tighten them so, I just put in the screw that came with it. I thought of hollowing out the pistol grip and storing a tiny screw driver in the space for emergency removal, LOL.

Kindest regards,

Carpediem4570

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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-Chrdonnay in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!"

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Paul
.400 member

Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Intermediate eye relief pistol scope on a dr [Re: carpediem4570]
#156694 - 17/03/10 12:36 AM

I'm sure there are guys who can install claw mounts here, DM. The issue was more a shortage of smiths who said they had one to suit or could get one within the few months available before I was going to Africa. Having heard Heym's quote, I didn't look too far, of course, convinced it would all finish up costing more than I wanted to pay.

Your situation, carpediem, reminds me bit of the inverted Redfield extension mounts on my Sako 338. A coin gets them off in a moment, and they go back pretty well. I just don't make a habit of doing it, having a scope that goes down to 2X. The Europeans, it seems to me, once tended to put 6-powers on rifles for use in the forest. No wonder they wanted to reef the them off when they got in close.

Cheers
- Paul

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