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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany
10.75x63, a forgotten #
      #153734 - 15/02/10 05:04 AM

Another enigmatic cartridge is the 10.75x63. COTW sais it was introduced about 1910 and was either a Mauser or a Mannlicher development. It is simply the better-known 10.75x68 with a 5mm shorter neck. DWM case number is 515, while the 10.75x68 is #515A, so it seems to be older than the x68. The only contemporary data I have found is from a ca1930 Burgsmueller, Kreiensen catalog: A 347gr jacketed bullet in front of 58.6gr R5 powder for 2129 fps. This is the same as the so-called "weak" load for the 10.75x68, intended for European use. The "full" load for the 10.75x68 was given as 64.8gr R5, 347gr bullet for 2260 fps. Sometimes the development is ascribed to a lePersonne, London. There is a note in the DWM case book mentioning DWM made 10.75x63 cartridges for lePersonne. LePersonne was an international arms dealer based in London, not quite the type of man who develops new cartridges.
In his standard tome "Das Deutsche Waidwerk", first ed. 1914, F.v.Raesfeld, who was a strong believer in the 9x57 himself, wrote: "The tendency to use smaller and smaller calibres seems to be a thing of the past. It is remarkable, that the Austrians have nearly arrived at the old 11mm calibre again. The Vienna company "Kaletzky's Widow", gunmaker to the court, offers a repeating rifle in 10.75 mm, that is praised as an excellent big game rifle." This meant european big game of the then vast Austro-Hungarian empire, like Hungarian stags and Carpathian bear. Austrians then had little interest in Africa, being without colonies there.
Many years ago a piece of "junk" fell into my hands: A Mauser M1903 Turk action, perhaps "lost in transit" once, lacking bottom metal and most small parts, with a quite unusual 21.5" barrel, full round with an integral full rib and front sight base, proofed in Vienna in 1907. The barrel is inscribed "Joh. Kaletzky' Witwe KuK Österreichischer & König. Serb. Hof-Lieferant in Wien" = Joh.Kaletzky's widow, supplier to the imperial and royal Austrian & the royal Serbian court. A chamber cast revealed it is chambered for the 10.75x63, so this must be the cartridge mentioned by v.Raesfeld and originating with that Vienna company.
In due time I completed the rifle with assorted parts from my "junkbox", to my own then tastes only. I used to shoot some smaller game like roe deer and smaller pigs with it, but now use it mainly for paper punching. My load is a .429" 300gr Sierra, sized-down in a homemade die to .423", in front of 62gr VV N140, for 2200fps.




Edited by NitroX (16/02/10 01:26 AM)


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VonGruff
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: kuduae]
      #153740 - 15/02/10 05:27 AM

You must have a fairly full and interseting 'junk box' if you put something together as pleasing to the eye as this. Have you got headstamped brass or x68 reworked.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12


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rigbymauser
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: kuduae]
      #153741 - 15/02/10 05:29 AM



Thanks for reminding of that caliber:LOL

I have an original triggerguard from Oberndof for that caliber.

I have thought many times to have a nice "pirchbüchsen stutzen" with a Hambrush half oct-half round barrel with full filed ripp.

One day.

Thank for sharing.


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lancaster
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: rigbymauser]
      #153743 - 15/02/10 06:05 AM

thats so rare, I wasn't thinking to look for a rifle in this caliber. I believing that the existing rifles for the 10,75x63 where most times rechambered for the 10,75x68 after the war when only this cartridge was available and this must be a very simple job when you look on the cartridges.
do you have an original cartridge for the x63? last year I got an offer for an old 10,75x57 for 120 euro!
again Ernst Steigleder have the cartridge in his 1926 catalog together with the 10,75x57 and the 10,75x68, all three witht he 350 grains bullet. muzzle velocity goes from 620m/sec for the x57 over 650 m/sec for the x63 to 670 m/sec for the x68.
interesting to not are also the 10,75mm rimmed Gründig cartridges
10,75x45R G 575 m/sec
10,75x52R G 600 m/sec
10,75x60R G 650 m/sec
10,75x65R G 670 m/sec
again with the 350 grain softpoint
the barrel length is not mentioned

this here is the 300 grains speer, the first one I got. the speer have a little hollow base and its my general experience that such bullets will be more eays to resize than plan base softpoints. have also a homemade resizing die from .429 to .424.

can you recommand the 300 grains sierra as a hunting bullet on small game or is only some kind of a replacement?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (11/10/10 10:08 AM)


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9.3x57
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: lancaster]
      #153756 - 15/02/10 07:34 AM

kuduae:

Ausgezeichnetes Geschichte!

Old Austria-Hungary was indeed a vast and fascinating Empire, and just as you say, with wide variety of hunting opportunities for the rare, well-heeled nobility. Seems mysterious as well.

And a great rifle, too.

Really, what was the story behind that '03 Turk and its caliber...

Mystery indeed!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: 9.3x57]
      #153759 - 15/02/10 08:02 AM

I use Boxer-primer RWS 10,75x68 brass, trimmed to length, as I have a few handfulls. But I have also made useable cases from 9.3x64 by swaging /turning down the bases. This is the main reason I refused an offer to rechamber this barrel, as the Brenneke cases are easier to get in a pinch.
No,I do not have an original 10.75x63 cartridge. Only after I had solved the loading problems I saw one at a gunshow, but the asking price was more than I invested into the rifle!
I do not intend to take this rifle to Africa, as I have 9.3x62s and a .416 Rigby too.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.


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9.3x57
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: kuduae]
      #153767 - 15/02/10 09:15 AM

Very interesting.

For around these parts, either of those would seem more handy and useful than their bigger cousins the .416's.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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kuduae
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: 9.3x57]
      #153768 - 15/02/10 09:36 AM

Forgot to mention my most-used hunting rifles here in Germany, both pre-war Mannlicher-Schoenauers, one a M1925 in 8x60 Magnum/S, the other a M1910 in 9.5x57 aka .375 Rimless NE.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.


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9.3x57
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: kuduae]
      #153782 - 15/02/10 11:56 AM

Quote:

the other a M1910 in 9.5x57 aka .375 Rimless NE.




That is a great cartridge, too, except the bullet is .2 mm too big...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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eagle27
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: 9.3x57]
      #153809 - 15/02/10 06:54 PM

kuduae

I remember shooting a 10.75x63 on a range when I was in Germany. I don't recall what bullets my friend was loading in this cartridge but we were getting a few hangfires with it.
Another of my German friends had a nice little FN double barrel rifle in 10.75x47G. We were swaging 44cal 265gr bullets down to .423" and loading with R902 powder. We eventually got it to regulate reasonably well with 45grs of this powder but did have a few hangfires along the way.

I see COTW lists a 10.5x47R cartridge based on the old Mauser concave head designed case but it looks identical to my friends 10.75x47G so I think maybe COTW have got a typing error.

I have a few of the original RWS 347gr steel jacketed bullets which would have been the originals for the 10.75x63 and 10.75x68. These shoot fine in my 404J (10.75x73).


Edited by CptCurl (11/10/10 10:09 AM)


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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: eagle27]
      #153846 - 16/02/10 03:50 AM

eagle27: Something is wrong here! Though COTW is notoriously incomplete and unreliable regarding old European cartridges, it is right on the 10.5x 47R! W.B.Dixon wrote a whole 196 page book on "European Sporting Cartridges", listing umpteen cartridges on the "MB" m71 Mauser .511" base, ranging in caliber from 8 to 12.5mm and in length from 28 to 80 mm. There were 7 in 45mm, 9 in 46mm, 24 in 47mm and 2in 49mm lengths! Calibers available in these lengths between 10 and 11 mm were 10.0; 10.25, 10.5, 10.75, 10.8 and 11mm. To further confuse things, many of these cases existed with different shoulder shapes and positions!Apparently every country gunsmith designed his own proprietary cases to ensure his customers coming back to him for resupply. All were black powder, lead bullet numbers. Most of them were obsolete by 1910.
The "G" or Gruendig series of rimmed cartridges were completely different. All were on a base of 12.48mm = .491", with a conventional rim of 13.7mm = .539" and were straight taper. They came in lengths of 45, 52, 60 and 65mm. All were smokeless loads from the start and used the same 347gr 10.75mm jacketed bullet. What was the reasoning behind these weak and slow big bore cartridges? They, except the longest ones, were meant for woods hunting in Germany. About 1900, many hunters who hunted woodlands with open sights only abhorred the idea of those new-fangled 6.5 to 9.3 mm "knitting needle" bullets. They desired the big entrance holes and minimal meat destruction of the old 11mm blackpowders and were quite contend with the low velocities and curved trajectories, but saw the advantages of smokeless loads as reduced fouling and smoke. To satisfy their demands the shorter "G" cartridges were designed.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.


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eagle27
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: kuduae]
      #153850 - 16/02/10 05:02 AM

Thanks kuduae,

I stand corrected then. My friends little 10.75 was definitely based on the MB case. I actually bought one back here to NZ on my return from Germany but have since given it to a collector. I still have the data written up for all the reloading we did for the various calibers we were loading for and I have the cartridge written down as 10.75x47G. His old double did not appear to have been altered so only assume the cartridge was correct. I can't recall if the cases were headstamped.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: eagle27]
      #169331 - 11/10/10 03:45 AM

Interesting rifle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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vegard_dino
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: NitroX]
      #169388 - 12/10/10 09:09 AM



Interesting rifle and caliber.

Also, the *57 is interesting. Some who have and use one?

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino


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500grains
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: vegard_dino]
      #169392 - 12/10/10 02:37 PM

Very nice looking rifle and I love those bullets with a big blob of exposed lead. I bet they would open up very nicely on game.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: 10.75x63, a forgotten # [Re: kuduae]
      #169397 - 12/10/10 03:44 PM

Nice. When I first saw the x63 designation I guessed either the 30-06 or the Swedish 8x63 as a brother chambering.

Those old timers were active wildcatters to use a now popular term and they deserve a lot of respect for this!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


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