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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Doner guns
      #153449 - 12/02/10 03:56 PM

As I have recently got very interested in the conversion of shotguns to double rifles.
I have some very novice questions. I notice that most use European actions to start with. And I presume that is do to the quality of the actions etc. Which I can agree with as I have several. Further I am only planning on low intensity cal as described in Ellis Browns book on double rifles.
I notice that no one seems to use many American actions. And as I see quite a few older L C smiths,Lefevers that look like they would bee the start of a nice light cal project.?? Are they to weak or.??? Any advice would be appreciated. Whitey

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153458 - 12/02/10 07:45 PM

Spellcheck anyone and a doner kebab for who gets it right?

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Conversion guns [Re: kamilaroi]
      #153480 - 13/02/10 01:29 AM

Sorry about the spelling. Too bad you didn't have anything constructive to say.

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3526
Loc: Colorado
Re: Doner guns [Re: kamilaroi]
      #153483 - 13/02/10 01:54 AM

Quote:

Spellcheck anyone and a doner kebab for who gets it right?


What does this mean?



Anyway, I see your point about the American actions.
It may have to do with perceived quality of the euro actions in general or that many Euro makers have a long history of building cape guns and extra rifle barrels on their actions - so there is experience using these actions in that respect.

Also, from what I have noticed on the used shotgun market, the Euro guns are more likely to have a pistol grip stock which is preferable on a double rifle.

Where in CO are you located?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: Huvius]
      #153487 - 13/02/10 02:21 AM

Thanks Huvius. I live way out east about 15 miles from the Ks border. In a narrow spot on the road called Joes Co.Smile some maps don't even have it. Whitey

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153491 - 13/02/10 03:09 AM

The sauer boxlock actions with intercepting sears are relatively inexpensive and plentiful.
With the solid and reliable safety features and crossbolt third fasteners it's hard to compare the US built actions to them in terms of safety and strength.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: tinker]
      #153493 - 13/02/10 03:38 AM

Thanks Tinker. That I understand as I have several future European project guns.It was just that I had seen several that looked like they would make into a neat looking gun and many had already had the barrels cut off etc.Which basically ruined them for restoring. SO was just curious if they could be used safely for any light pressure Cal's. Whitey

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Empire375
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/09
Posts: 239
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153504 - 13/02/10 07:33 AM

In Australia there are plenty of beautiful Greener 12G around and they are very well priced. I have often wondered why people dont make them into double rifles. I'm absolutely no gunsmith but it appears a logical procedure.
Why doesn't it work ?

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gallatin
.224 member


Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 44
Loc: Olympia,Wa. USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: Empire375]
      #153546 - 13/02/10 03:27 PM

Also there is the fact that EU guns are proved and US guns are not.With "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by Gerhard Wirnsberger one can see the pressures that that gun was proofed at.
Most here think that a good thing.On the other hand since we would all reproof any gun when finished I guess it doesn't matter what the original proof was.
John

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: gallatin]
      #153547 - 13/02/10 03:39 PM

Thanks John I understand that and I was not thinking of any high pressure stuff. An again mainly curious. Whitey

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Doner guns [Re: Empire375]
      #153548 - 13/02/10 03:41 PM


Quote:

In Australia there are plenty of beautiful Greener 12G around and they are very well priced. I have often wondered why people dont make them into double rifles. I'm absolutely no gunsmith but it appears a logical procedure.
Why doesn't it work ?




Empire, you may find this interesting.
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~orrs/GreenerStory.htm

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153550 - 13/02/10 03:47 PM

Whitey,
Did you have any particular cartridge in mind for a shottie conversion?

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: 4seventy]
      #153552 - 13/02/10 04:07 PM

Quote:

Whitey,
Did you have any particular cartridge in mind for a shottie conversion?


Nothing for sure but I think my first will be in 32-40 then maybe a 30-40 Krag. My problem is I am old (73) and senile Smile.And I love to build guns it keeps my mind and hands busy. And as i am now retired and have all my own machines etc. I have nothing but time to play.And have stumbled on to the DR stuff.And not only is it different but very neat.And am trying to find out as much as possible about what is safe etc. Whitey email whanson@plainstel.com

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153565 - 13/02/10 06:48 PM

Hi Whitey,

You have ten years on me but the interest you have in machining / building of firearms will keep your mind active and keep's you at a distance from "Meeting your Maker" as once you have no interests in life "HE" recons it's time to bring you home...

Cheers from Australia,

Jeff Gray

--------------------


"Travel Light, Travel Fast and carry a Big Bore"

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #153600 - 14/02/10 02:12 AM

Then things got to be on hold for a long time as I have a lot of projects to do yet. Smile Whitey

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oupa
.300 member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153790 - 15/02/10 01:22 PM

There are a lot of old American guns out there that are questionable - even some of the "better" makes. That said, any prospect donor requires complete evaluation. Primary concern should be the locking set up. Mr. Brown is emphatical on a "Greener style" crossbolt although there are plenty of rifles without one. Most American guns do not have the multiple bolt or bites common on European guns. Unlike Brown though I am reluctant to say no American gun is suitable.

I did once see a 45-70 on an old Ithica but that doesn't mean it was a good thing! The Savage/Stevens' are perhaps the weakest of all well known makes. I would not reccomend them for anything except what I once put one to use as, a .22LR. As you mentioned, I found one in 20ga. as a box of parts at a gun show years ago. Restoration was out of the question but it did make a neat little double rifle.

Keep your eyes open and in the mean time do as much research on what constitutes the strengths AND weaknesses in a SxS action. There are few readily available sources on the subject as good as this forum! Ask as many questions as you like, as they say, the only dumb question is the one not asked!

Whitey, I'd like to offer my admiration of you entering such an interesting hobby when many would be satisfied to sit in the rocker or at the diner and tell stories. I'm sure no authority - far from it - but if there is ANYTHING I can help with let me know.

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: oupa]
      #153793 - 15/02/10 01:46 PM

Oupa thank ver much for the information. This is a great site and you are right there is not much information out there on building DR's and what to use.And to top it all off I had not been involved
with shotguns for many years. But seen talk of DR's And now I got a real bug and lots of desire.
so my SS's and bolt guns go on the back burner for awhile.
And thanks to all the information I am getting it give me a lot to consider in my future projects.
But what ever I do it will not be a big bore rifle. But that does not mean I can't use some of the ideas etc of them. Again thanks and if you are ever bored. Drop me a line at. Email
whanosn@plainstel.com

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Tallchief
.300 member


Reged: 11/12/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Colorado,USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153880 - 16/02/10 12:28 PM

Whitey,
i too have bben bitten by the DR bug, and even bought a lower priced one....real nice to shoot. However this and other forums just opend up my desire for more. I found the conversion approach real interesting and bought the book even though I am not a machist of any kind. I did want to tell you that I have found several of the guys in different forums saying to get either a Sauer or one of many Belgium shotguns..seems the Belgiums use better steel that most. The link below has many many such shotguns a realy low prices and many having a greener cross bolt too

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=350&osCsid=a89a5e60b6cc3fdfc0090d9e6fdeb28a

Thanks good luck and Im just behind you in years, and lice in colorado as well

TC

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: Tallchief]
      #153882 - 16/02/10 01:13 PM

TC first where are you in Colorado.?? I am out on the eastern plains. About 15 miles from KS.
Smile I have a 20 ga. Coming from Simpson's now for a project.My problem is I can not stop thinking about the next project. etc,etc. I have a Arri-ta 28 ga,Skb,Saur,merkel.Robust, Brono and a Simpson all lined up For me to decide.And now am looking for a O/U. Did I tell you I am old and senile. Smile
Drop me a Email when you have time. whanson@plainstel.com

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Tallchief
.300 member


Reged: 11/12/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Colorado,USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #153885 - 16/02/10 02:07 PM

Whitey,
I understand, the only thing keeping me from spend a lot of money are my grandchildren, and not being able to find a local gunssmith who want to take on the job for little $. I live near Canon City, and we don't have much in the way of options. I am probably going to buy one of those Belgium guns and slip in some 20 gauge liners. My original thought was to take a 12 gauge and have some rifled shotgun barrels turned at the breach to slip inside of the 12 ga. seems to be pretty good idea.

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: Tallchief]
      #153887 - 16/02/10 02:44 PM

TC sounds like you have a plan. Smile Drop me a email when you have time. Whitey

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: whitey]
      #154076 - 18/02/10 03:57 AM

The following should work fine: Merkel Mod 8, Husqvarna's, Simpson, Sauer, Greener Empire, and Huglu 202B.

All are strong and high quality. IMHO

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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whitey
.275 member


Reged: 20/01/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Doner guns [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #154119 - 18/02/10 11:53 AM

Thanks Blain.? Whitey

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