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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #187002 - 01/08/11 04:44 AM

igorrrock send me a mail that he have a wiener schnäppermontage front feet for selling. its an interesting part that may not fit but with a little luck can be used from a competent gunsmith. my own gunsmith have uses old claw mount parts and fit it into each other, its possible sometimes.

its with Durchblick - look through









the Mannlicher 95 is allmost forgotten now but he played a role in the KuK empire before the outbreak of WW 1. we have seen now some example's that were made - no doubt - for gentleman in this days. just after the turn of the century he had got very serious competition from the Mauser 98 and the Mannlicher Schönauer. after the first and again after the second world war many military rifles ended in the hands of hunter who let them sporterize. this may have end around 1965 but in this time the austrian gunmaker was on the same level of quality like before the first WW.
I will continue to search about this sporting rifle action. we do not know enough about it anymore so I will collect the pieces. where, when not on nitroexpress is the right place?


"Throughout Europe hunters were pretty fast to gravitate to scopes and bolt rifles, actually, long before hunters in the USA. Even in my lifetime I remember the endless arguments about whether scopes were better or worse for deer hunting...arguments that have pretty much evaporated.

And in the USA, going to the old buffalo hunters, they used much "modern" equipment {for the day} and one little-known period of hunting history I am researching now that spanned some 40-50 years in the Western USA was the period of US Federal government large predator control operations.

Scopes and small-bore high velocity rifles were quickly adopted, with the Savage 99 in .22 HP, .250 Sav, and a bit later .220 Swift and .270 Winchester used by a number of those involved in that very difficult work. At a similar time period your Eastern and Central European hunters saw the advantages of these scoped bolt guns. Different quarry, but similar observations; the advantages of "small-bore" {compared to older black powder rounds}, scoped bolt rifles cannot be ignored.

These 95's, and the others of the similar era you've posted really highlight the diversity in makes and models of stocks, scopes and mounts especially. Absolutely fascinating!!! "


the use of bolt action rifles was only the european equivalent to the american lever action rifle. if you go to shotguns you will find that the pump action repeating shotgun never realy come to europe. and you have also today hunts on small game where they dont like to see automatic shotguns not to talk about the "gangsta" pumpgun.
long times after the last war a good scope was very expensive. thats maybe a part of the problem.
the idea that the use of a scope was not sportsman like is an old story, same thing was saying about bolt action repeater.
please dont believe that the grass is greener on the other side. they hade only other problems but it was not trouble free.

Edited by CptCurl (01/08/11 08:57 PM)


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9.3x57
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #187008 - 01/08/11 05:08 AM

lancaster;

these are really great threads.

The scope mounts on these guns are so unique. I'd love to see how they were made, tooling, machinery setup, etc.

Some years ago the 95 carbines were available here for dirt cheap. I had other projects going and never bought one but some friends did and really enjoy them. Bullets are made using the Lee drawing die and .338 bullets which are common.

Some of the guns imported here were German conversions to 7.92x57.

Your thread has me wondering yet again about a 95.................

Keep posting your findings!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #187072 - 02/08/11 04:29 AM

I am not the only one thinking abbout a sporter project

here is such a thing in a auction








http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3412441
a M 95 action with a new 6,5mm barrel blank without a chamber. I wonder what the plan was for this project? a 6,5x53R Finnish would be work or some kind of a special 6,5mm wildcat cartridge.

you may imagine that there is a reason for my passion about the M 95 action.
my own and till now secret sporting rifle project

trying the first time if the cartridge fit into the action




yes, its the 10,75x52R Springer

and it work in the magazin without problems
I am waiting for a custom die set from CH4D. when it arrive I will make dummy rounds from 8x56R brass and order a chamber reamer for the big springer.
an old stutzen is in the hands of my gunmaker and will get a new barrel in 10,75mm. the plan is to proof the rifle for the 350 grains bullet at 610m/sec. this was an old DWM load for the 10,75x68 to hunt european game. I have use the time and did a little work on the original military stock. this were first pics in spring when I hade an old sporter stock. this one like many other also was made from the miltary stock before. I change the pistol grip like it was done on the old stock. when the stock get a checkering this will be nearly invisible.
why? because of curiosity















Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:05 AM)


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9.3x57
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #187093 - 02/08/11 10:38 AM

lancaster...you've been holding out on us!!

Please by all means keep us posted step by step!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #187980 - 16/08/11 05:08 AM

again M 95 sporting rifles

here a sporterized Stutzen, its the stock you see in my pics above. this original military stock was trimmed to much so it became unstable and have got cracks



this is another sporter with a then new made full stock, double trigger and schäppermontage
unfortunately lost the scope over the times




notice the spring to catch the clip








--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:06 AM)


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Daryl_S
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #187981 - 16/08/11 05:39 AM

I had a M95 that I pulled the barrel off and put on a .375 barrel, chambered for the .350 Rem Mag case necked up to .375 for a sporter.

I turned the belts off the cases as I'd cut the chamber with the top 2.0" of a .300 Win. Mag reamer and .375 neck throater. Ballistics were not too shabby - 270gr. at 2,150, about the same as the original belted .375. The barrel was only 19".

I kept the pressure fairly low and didn't push it. Broke the extractor one day, lost interest while trying to find another extractor (pre-internet) and tossed the action.

I still have the brass though, I think, along with the barrel - It would put 2-300's, 2-270's and 2-285 GS into a 2" group at 100 meters.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: Daryl_S]
      #188023 - 17/08/11 04:52 AM

interesting story, would like to see the brass or a loaded round if you find one.
I suspect the cartridge work in the original clip???
when my mannlicher will be ready someday - I am still waiting for the die set from ch4d to make a chamber reamber for this - it will be the maximum for the M 95 action in my opinion

350 grains softpoint at 2000 feet per sec is not bad

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Igorrock
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #188030 - 17/08/11 07:33 AM

Lancaster, do you have any fact of 10,75x63 Mauser ? It sounds quite interesting when I found it from Cartridges of the World...

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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Daryl_S
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #188032 - 17/08/11 08:24 AM

Quote:

interesting story, would like to see the brass or a loaded round if you find one.
I suspect the cartridge work in the original clip???
when my mannlicher will be ready someday - I am still waiting for the die set from ch4d to make a chamber reamber for this - it will be the maximum for the M 95 action in my opinion

350 grains softpoint at 2000 feet per sec is not bad




That's good speed with that weight, that's for sure. this one will do it as well, however a different bolt actioned rifle might be needed.

On the left is the 'new' .375x2"R w/300gr.Hornady with a 9.3x57 w/293gr.TUG on the right side. With the belt turned off the base is now .500" with the rim at .532". I used my .375 Styer seater die to seat the bullet. All the brass I found (about 100), was primed, but not loaded.
As to functioning in the mag. - I don't know - I didn't test them, although I had a 2 boxs of factory 8x56R with 4 clips - wonder why? Probably as usual when in load testing mode at the range, I single load. Broke the extractor before I got around to completing my tests- or going any further. It's unfortunate - good round. If I'd used the magazine, the extractor might not have broken -


Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:07 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: Igorrock]
      #188144 - 19/08/11 03:31 AM

Quote:

Lancaster, do you have any fact of 10,75x63 Mauser ? It sounds quite interesting when I found it from Cartridges of the World...




maybe the only living person with real facts about the 10,75x63 is kuduae
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=153734&an=0&page=2#Post153734

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Igorrock
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #188184 - 19/08/11 11:25 PM

Thank ! I have just forgotten this topic...

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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chapmen
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: Igorrock]
      #188334 - 23/08/11 04:47 AM

Here is an pic of an sporter, think made betwen 1920-1930?


--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:07 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: chapmen]
      #188370 - 23/08/11 01:15 PM

thanks chapman, I looking forward for the pics of your sporter restauration

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Sville
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #188377 - 23/08/11 05:32 PM

Thats a nice old photo. He must be proud sitting there with his rifle! //S

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chapmen
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: chapmen]
      #188408 - 24/08/11 03:46 AM

This is an hunting stutzen with M95 system i am just restoring, so excuse the bad pics.
Its in 7x57 R, proofed in Ferlach 1937. Stock is an miltary type with closed holes, two piece with new forend, the checkpiece (?) is set on, metall buttstock. Scope is an Reichert/Wien 3x.






















--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:08 AM)


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chapmen
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: chapmen]
      #188409 - 24/08/11 03:52 AM





--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:09 AM)


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9.3x57
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: chapmen]
      #188432 - 24/08/11 10:54 AM

chapmen;

Can you give a little bit more info on the photo of the fellow with the 95? Where was it taken?

Interesting rear sight base. At first I thought it was a Battue sight, then saw the blade. Drückjagdvisier of some sort?

This thread is one of the most fascinating of all. Very interesting.

A peek into a bygone age.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #188437 - 24/08/11 01:00 PM

its the second M 95 in 7x57R I heard off now. good for you that it allways have the original scope.
did the cartridge fits realy strong and tight in the clip?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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chapmen
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #188485 - 25/08/11 01:18 AM

I know nothing about the pic, bought on ebay without any more infos possible.
The rifle has an very fine rear sight , the rear scope base has nothing to do with the sighting.
7x57R fitting very fine in the clips i have.
Have to make the finish , the barrel is like new----excited on the first shoots on the range....

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de


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9.3x57
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: chapmen]
      #188493 - 25/08/11 05:41 AM

chapmen, I was referring to the rear sight on the old pictured rifle. The fellow looks Hungarian, maybe? Slovenian? Not sure. Fascinating pic tho.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #188542 - 25/08/11 08:14 PM

I think this can becoming the ultimate Mannlicher M 95 sporting rifle thread,something you will not find in the wild desert's of the world web. will collect all pics about this theme here from the past and also in what will show up in the future.
declare this thread as an ever-growing one now
first start with mounts
problem with all clip loading rifle's is the clip if it comes to scope's
for the military only a scope mount allowing the load of the clip was acceptable




having the scope on the side of the rifle was not uncommon in older times.
I saved the pic of this M 95 scope mount set was sold on ebay once, iirc. dont know if this was an original or a repro mount and I am not aware that anyone is making this scope mount now.



here are pics from a sporting rifle looking like the scope is also located on the side





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:09 AM)


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #188545 - 25/08/11 08:30 PM

most of the other rifles here have the Wiener Schnäppermontage with the common rear feet like chapmans rifle have or the rear feet seems to be made special for Mannlicher Schönauer rifles like this one:





and this





http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=122529&an=0&page=3#Post122529





M 95 in 6,5x53R from J.Just in Ferlach with the scope on a Suhler Einhakmontage










http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=154615&an=0&page=2#Post154615

you have to remove the scope for loading the clip into the magazin, easy for stalking the roe buck.

M 95 sporter with "express sight's"












http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=103343&an=0&page=5#Post103343

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (27/11/11 04:10 AM)


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9.3x57
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #188553 - 25/08/11 10:38 PM

Excellent posts as always.

Is there any simple method for permanently mounting a clip inside the magazine and then loading the clip one round at a time? Can it even be done? Constant removal of the scope for loading seems trouble waiting to happen.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: 9.3x57]
      #188554 - 25/08/11 11:15 PM

you must understand that in older times many hunters were more than suspicious about scopes seeing them as not sportsman like. and scopes were very expensive for the average hunter and they dont use them permanently but having them in a leather box hanging on the side. the scope was mounted when they shot on longer distance. the old scope mounts are very expensive to made today but thats the price you pay for the quality. when a good craftsman do it you can remove the scope many, many times and set it on again and it works.

I dont know any method for a clip- less use of the common M 95. it can be done like it was made with modernized M 88 military rifles using the mauser stripper clip.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: another M 95 sporter [Re: lancaster]
      #188577 - 26/08/11 04:07 AM

This is a great thread. Thanks Lancaster and all the other members adding to it. And a very useful thread for projects.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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