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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
416 Taylor project done!
      #151455 - 22/01/10 06:45 PM

Well, here it is, my latest addition to the family, a 416 Taylor. Vital Stats are - Win M70 Classic action in stainless steel, 26" MAB stainless barrel #5 contour, Richards Microfit Electric Blue stock, LH shooter, all metal has been bead blasted and has a 2.5-8 Leupold mounted in dual dovetail mounts. also has a David Tubb speedlock kit fitted. All up weight is 10lb 2 ozs.
The barrel has been laser engraved with the calibre.
I know its not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but I like things a little different than the normal!

Off to the range in the morning to run in the barrel and see what happens.
All metalwork was done by Jim Kent, Buffalo Gunsmithing in Toowoomba QLD and the stock was finished by Darryl Stevens of Fernvale QLD.

David.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151456 - 22/01/10 06:54 PM

I'm a traditionalist but like my own touchs added to a rifle. That's a great rifle and I love the stock. Please let us know how it shoots.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: tophet1]
      #151458 - 22/01/10 07:13 PM

Looks nice David.
You will have no trouble finding it on the gun rack at one of your shoots !.
Will you hunt with this one as well or just for your big bore events ?.
Thanks for looking over my 404 stock today as it is good to get another lefty to try it out.
Look forward to hearing of your results with the 416.
Talk soon Neale.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #151468 - 22/01/10 08:28 PM

Neale,
It will mainly see use at the range, but I'm hoping to be able to get back in the paddock a bit more this year, and I'll just have to take this one and try it on something.
I'm a little disappointed about the mismatch of the mounts, scope etc. You would think Leupold could get the colours right for their scopes and mounts.

No problem with your stock at Darryl's, it does feel really good, I think it will be a really comfortable stock to use, nice to hang on to and I think you would have absolute control of the rifle with it, and it is going to be a strong stock, I'd expect it to last forever. Your piece of wood has got the grain running perfectly for this stock.
I could mount the rifle with closed eyes, open them and be looking right down your sights when I opened my eyes, plus if you wanted a low mounted scope, I think that would work as well, you would still have plenty of cheek weld with it.
John Bishop had a look at it as well yesterday, he's bigger and a lot taller than both of us and is an English rifle and shotgun freak, his comments were "perfect, don't change anything". I reckon you will be happy.
Give me a yell anytime if you need me to have a look again, but I'd expect it to be finished in a couple of weeks.

David.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151475 - 22/01/10 09:19 PM

What would happen if you bead blast the mounts ?.
Daryl is taking the 404 to Condimine this weekend so I can have a look.It is only 2 hours away.
Thanks again,talk soon Neale.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #151484 - 22/01/10 10:28 PM

Nice rifle, but I have a dumb question.

Why did you use a right handed action?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: CptCurl]
      #151509 - 23/01/10 03:22 AM

David - terrific guide gun - perfect with a plastic stock, but OK with a good pint job. Not really impressed with the colours, but it's an excellent calibre and action.
I've 'wanted' a .416 Taylor since the 70's but never got arount to building one. A good job.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: CptCurl]
      #151526 - 23/01/10 06:12 AM

Curl,
Reason why I use a right hand action is that I've been using them for so long, it's just second nature to me. I actually cannot get used to a left handed action.
One of the BGR events we shoot here is called "special snap", 8 rounds in 35 seconds at 25 metres, 10 ring about 35mm diameter roughly. Obviously requires a magazine reload somewhere during the 35 seconds. I have no problem whatsoever firing the 8 rounds in that timeframe, and my scores generally run in the 75-78 range as well.

David.

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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151552 - 23/01/10 09:44 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Nice Rifle David!
You aren't by your self here as I prefer to have something different from the rest of the "Sheeple in the Flock"

Fat Boy, the Leupold Rings are "Electroless Nickle" plated and this finish is not easily removed. You can wear through it with a Bead Blaster but then you have carbon steel and whilst it will be similar to the scope and rifle for a while, it will rust eventually!?!

Mmmmmmm Leupold 2.5-8 x 36mm scope!!!!!

Mmmmmmmy names Homer!
HooRoo

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: Homer]
      #151567 - 23/01/10 06:31 PM

450,there are plenty of us like you.
I am left eye domanent but am right handed. I shoot rifles left handed but always use a right handed action. I shoot a hand gun right handed and still sight with my left eye.
Like you I have never had trouble "holding my own" with front the back rifle's.

I saw Daryl today and I love the 404 stock, fits like a glove.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #151575 - 23/01/10 08:04 PM

Neale,
Glad you like the stock Darryl's got underway, I was pretty sure it should have been OK for you.

Took the 416 out to the range this morning to run it in and chrono a few rounds. did the usual 1 shot and clean for 5 rounds, then got into some 3 shot groups and then a clean.
AR 2208 seems the best for group size at present, with 3 shots about an inch, not fantastic, but OK. I'm pretty sure I can get it to go a bit better yet. Projectile used was a 400 grain Woodleigh, the 2208 loads chronographed at 2150 fps, but were really mild, plenty to go yet if needed.
RL 15 was the surprise though, 70 grains of it got the Woodleighs doing 2300 fps, again very mild, groups about 1.25", which I don't think is anywhere good enough, but still have a lot of fiddling to go yet.

David.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151576 - 23/01/10 08:09 PM

Thats pretty impressive velosity. Must be pretty efficent.
How's the recoil ?.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #151583 - 23/01/10 09:42 PM

Neale, its actually not too bad off the bench, I put about 40 through it today, all bench work, but it does tend to bounce around a bit so a good firm hold is needed.
I was pretty inpressed with the velocities myself, there is a post on the AR forum about 416 Taylor loads, most of those guys are using around 72 of RL 15 and getting about 2350 fps, so I think I'm near the money as well.
I'll just have to keep playing though!

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151607 - 24/01/10 04:16 AM

I think too many people try to make varmint rifles out of their hunting rifles - or - expect too much from a rifle shooting bullets designed primarily for killing big game.

In the 70's, a hunting rifle that grouped 1 1/2" to 2" was a 'real' hunting rifle. The bullets themselves weren't as well made and were mostly incapable of making the tiny groups we've come to expect with today's bullets.

I was shooting 'postition' competition then and in building a rifle, one capable of holding the 10 ring was deemed to be necessary. Any better than that, and it was gravy. The 10 ring meant 10 shots into 1". I am talking match rifle, not hunting rifle. Many of the guns we built were on Mauser actions and were capable of X ring accuracy - that's 1/2" for 10 shots. Pure gravy. BR rifles then, would place in top 5 with an ag. of 1/4", yet today, many people thing their off the shelf '06 should do as well. I think too many 2-shot groups are measured.

If I was putting Woodleighs out at 2,300fps to 2,400fps from a 'Taylor' and achieved 1 1/2" to 1 3/4", I'd be quite happy with the accuracy. At the ranges most game is shot, pin-point accuracy is within the capabilities of such a rifle. With perfect alignement of sights, the centre of the bullet hole will be no more than 1/2" from the aiming point at 50 yards, and .7/8" from the cross hairs at double that range assuming 1 3/4 MOA capability. At extended ranges where pin point accuracy is not needed and lung/heart/shoulder shots are taken, even 2" will still do the job, perfectly.

We all like to have a rifle that shoots bug holes - makes for good bragging rights - but, it doesn't make it an better of a hunting rifle, especially in .416 calibre.

Seems to me the 'old' .416 Taylor standard was 72gr. IMR4320 for 2,400fps. Re#15 is a more consistant powder in heat, and the AR powders are better yet. I'd be looking at the Ausi' equivalents of H4895 and Varget. I've consistantly received better accuracy from H4895 than with Re#15 in my .375's and 9.3's. They are close, but the H's have done better.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151612 - 24/01/10 04:32 AM

Great Looking gun--and great caliber to boot..

Congrats on all---think you will be very happy with the performance of the .416---a truly great caliber..

Curious why you choose a 2.5 to 8 versus a 1.5 to 5 or 1.75 to 6 for a scope on it?? I know this is all very subject to individual taste..just curious...

Congrats again,

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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gryphon
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: Ripp]
      #151617 - 24/01/10 05:30 AM



quote daryl "We all like to have a rifle that shoots bug holes - makes for good bragging rights - but, it doesn't make it an better of a hunting rifle, especially in .416 calibre."EndQ

Unfortunately also there are very few hunters/shooters out there that can actually shoot well enough to confirm the capabilities of the different calibres owned by them.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: gryphon]
      #151625 - 24/01/10 06:00 AM

I am sure that if 450 doesnt get 1/2 " groups he wont screw the barrel out and throw it away but why not find out in a controlled environment what the rifle is capable of.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #151639 - 24/01/10 08:26 AM

Ripp,
I chose a 2.5-8 because it was available in silver finish, and I needed at least 6 power, as that is the upper limit for the range shooting I do, the extra 2 power helps in load development a little more, but mainly I just liked the look of it in silver!

Most of the shooting I do is at the range, in the BGR events and as such, now being as competitive as it is, you really do need a rifle that shoots as good as it can, I agree that 1.5" groups would be good, but I really enjoy screwing the last possible bit of accuracy out of a rifle, and if that turns it into a 1" rifle or less, then I'm a lot happier, but more importantly, I'm a lot more confident with it on the range. I know the rifle can do it, so any odd shots are all my fault.
Gryphon, I agree that if you think you can shoot better than your rifle, you should give up and play golf or something, those type of thoughts will never lead to said person shooting well.
I'm never the sort of person to load a charge from a book and be happy it just goes "bang" though, I just have to see what I can get, accuracy wise.

David.

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151738 - 25/01/10 09:17 AM

G'Day Fella's,

450/David, it has been my experience that most rifles especially "Rat Gun Calibers" (that's Sub-.30 Cal for the uninitiated), need around 100 shots through them before they settle down and start to shoot, to their full potential.
Now by this I don't mean get a New rifle and shoot 100 shots through it and expect it to shoot!
I mean, first clean the barrel, then as described, Run the Barrel In and clean the barrel regularly in this first 100 shots.

Good luck with it and I hope it reaches your expected accuracy.

HooRoo
From
Hammer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: Homer]
      #151741 - 25/01/10 11:19 AM

The bigger the bore, the less 'fussy' they can be as to different loads. A bit of load development usually pays off though & makes the owner smile.

I always work to find the very best accuracy a gun will give, usually to the excess and although I hold that it isn't necessary to have a gun shoot under an inch, it does make one feel good - especially when the bullet makes a descent sized hole by itself. A 1" group with a .416, similarily to a .45 cal. rifle, will just be a single hole wit 5 shots. Nice to see.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
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Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: DarylS]
      #151774 - 25/01/10 04:31 PM

Hommer,
I agree with you on at least 100 rounds.
I believe I can get a rough idea of the rifles potential within the first 25-50 rounds, but you are correct with the 100 round figure.
My 338-06 with a stainless fluted Lilja barrel was a dog until I put about 120 rounds through it, now it'll put 5 215 grain Sierra's in around 5/8 - 1".
I did the barrel run in thing as I do with every new rifle or barrel I have, I hate doing it, takes up far too much shooting time, but I'm just not game enough not to do it, good barrels cost money.
I'm sure the 416 will shoot well enough for me to hit things with it in any case.

David.

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151784 - 25/01/10 05:14 PM

Hey David.
Thats something else we have in common. I have a 338-06 with a Maddco 26" stainless fluted barrel.
I run 225 grain Hornady Interbonds @ 2700 and will print them under an inch all day.
Great caliber !!.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #151786 - 25/01/10 05:37 PM

Neale,
good calibre aren't they, I have used the 225 SST's before, but tend to stick with the Sierra's because they shoot a little better. Mine likes RE 19 the best, although looking through my book, RE 15 and AR 2208 were also very good.
I must have a slow barrel, all I can get with the 215/225's is about 2600 or so before the bolt gets a bit hard to lift.
Mines on a Winchester Pre-64 action.

David.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #151796 - 25/01/10 07:41 PM

I use 60 grains 2209 & cci mag primer behind the 225's
58.5 grains 2208, cci mag primer behind 200 grain Accubonds for 2900 fps. (load I used in Africa).
Mine has a long throat,so I have a c.o.l of 3.55".




--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 416 Taylor project done! [Re: FATBOY404]
      #151828 - 26/01/10 03:34 AM

Fatboy404 - is that the standard .338/06 or an improved version? In the picture, the case appears to be straighter (less taper) than a standard '06, and the shoulder looks to be about 28 degrees rather than 17 degrees 30min.

What is the shoulder diameter, please?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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