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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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DarylS
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #146266 - 20/11/09 02:27 AM

Truely impressive! I like that 'little' 16 bore! Good looking round and in a big bolt gun, given a good barrel and perhaps 1,000gr. projectiles might do good work out to 500 yards on Somoli pirates!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #146673 - 25/11/09 05:08 PM

Here is a picture of US-S brass slug after going through
3 foot of wood slabs in a bundle. It has shed its plastic
base and it went through straight without tumbling.
This one is 570 gr fired at 2200 in RMC case, from NEF.
Also in picture is one with white sabot petals off, as it
would be in flight, before hitting target.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Posts: 649
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #147019 - 01/12/09 06:54 PM

4bore work. Working on design of firing pin,
and waiting for parts now. Problem is getting
real small parts without CNC for bushed
firing pin with rebound spring. But it takes
time.

We will have swaged lead slugs
in a little while as my barrel is smooth. They
will be 1600gr hollowbase, when done,
a hundred of them at least.
Got wads and cards, shown in the picture with 4bore
cases and slugs. And my 2bore case for comparison
Also 12ga wads for comparison..

Karl can you email me.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #147460 - 08/12/09 09:33 PM

Our cartridge work and experimenting got a nice
write up in # 470 Nov/Dec International Ammunition
Journal. Page 10-11 by Zach Weighman, a
cartridge collector and gun nut friend.

Got a guy just figured out BMG case rim, and for a rim
puts on 12ga high base cup from a plastic case. He turns
base/rim of bmg case about .008" and use JB Kwik to hold
it on. Pushes it on with press. He removes base cup with
heat gun from plastic cases,

He is using RE17, so shotgun primers will work, and he
puts bushing in case for primer. Has bushing reamed so
the primer pocket protrusion on the base cup goes up inside
tight, as he pushes on the base cup. It'll fire ok and to size it
do like I do, I push case into open top die, and push it
back out from the top with a rod and hammer. That
way the rim don't get bent up. He says it saves a lot of
time not having to make rim pieces.

We will have more info and pictures next few weeks.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
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Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #147470 - 09/12/09 01:28 AM

Now that's ingenious. I might have to make up some 3 1/2" .5 cases now, for the Marlin 835. Pretty cool.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #148100 - 16/12/09 03:21 PM

Here is a picture of a BPI sabot with a BPI Flexseal I
use on to it in place of the original cushion seal.
I also cut shallow slots in the outside at the bottom
of the petals. Sabot opens much quicker and seems
along with BPGS seals under it to work ok without
damage, giving high velocities. In pic on left is regular
BPI sabot, behind is one I put a cushion on from a
Brenekke KO slug, and in front the one with Flexseal on.
The slug in it is one a guy casts at 440 gr and .504"
diameter, and works ok.

New info on my 499HE, from now on we will make cases
out of 450 #2 brass, as Jamisons has 3-4000 cases,
and it seems no one has the 475 #2 we used first.
Only slight case dimension change is the base .012"
smaller, all else is the same. I'm getting reamers redone
and will be able to use in couple weeks. Case will still have
plenty of taper to extract easy in singles, doubles,
falling blocks.etc.

And speaking of falling blocks I found one, and put my 585HE
in it, and it is big enough and has enough clearance to be used
for a 577NE, 600NE, long 20ga, my long 16ga FH,
the 700H, the 700HE. Cost no more than Ruger. Will have pics
and info soon. Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #148507 - 21/12/09 04:47 PM

Here is picture, Falling Block I found that I put
my 585HE in. It didn't need any work on the
feed trough to feed. 585 case shown in it.
In fact the trough is big enough
and the action big enough for 600NE, 3.5" 20ga
brass, 3.5" 16ga FH brass, my 700 HE long case.
I reworked a NEF stock to it, as I'm not
a stockmaker.Nice action.2nd picture is
of the 16GA FH in the feed trough.Ed





--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #148957 - 27/12/09 04:33 PM

Here is picture of the FBW falling block with my
700HE long case in it.This falling block is 1.5"
wide, with a 1.125" wide breach block.
The sides are .187" thick next to breach block.
This compares to about .165" say for a Browning
B-87, Win copy. The feed trough would work with
12ga size rim if some work was done on the top
of the hammer. This has a barrel thread length of
1.005", thread diameter of 1.125" for good
strength. Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #149518 - 05/01/10 04:33 PM

Here is picture of the falling block with a
600NE in the feed trough. Work great
chambered as a 3.5" 20 gauge, for
20 gauge 3.5" brass and plastic cases also.

Second picture is a 12GA FH case we made by
epoxying on a 12 ga base cup onto a bmg brass
case. Turned brass down .010" and pressed on base
with epoxy in it and when set base is on good.Ed





--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #149768 - 07/01/10 06:48 PM

Another way that I put a 12ga rim on
bmg case is to use the new Magtech brass
12ga cases made by CBC in Brazil.
BPI and others sell them for less than
a buck each. Being so short they aren't
in the 12ga FH category of generating power.
But you cut them off a quarter inch long, and
turn a BMG rim down to .715 diameter, push on the
Magtech base, with JB weld in the Magteck
base, and set up a squeeze collet to
crimp the Magtech base sides into the BMG
extractor groove. Crimp it in hard and tight.
And it uses large rifle primers.Fed Mag 215 best.
Other bmg case work needed is to put a chamfer
on the bmg primer pocket and drill out the
bmg primer pocket straight so that there is no
block to the primer gases coming out through the
Magtech flash hole. Chamfer back of rim a little.
These will handle
20,000 psi loads.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #149812 - 08/01/10 03:45 AM

I wondered if that would work Ed. Good idea.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #149879 - 08/01/10 06:29 PM

I did a rough crimp job with magtech in a chuck
with a bolt cutter to squeeze a little at a time
going a around it.Not fast or neat, so to do it
right and even, you need a very strong squeeze collet
fixture with collet segments raised to just
push in on the edge you are crimping into
the groove.Ed

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #149926 - 09/01/10 06:19 AM

Collet crimper might be a bugger to build.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #150536 - 13/01/10 06:16 PM

Yes a proper collet closer/crimper with needed strength
I can't afford either. So I am making them with base cups
epoxied on,as guys wanting them for their collections.
Anyone wanting one, 20 bucks shipping included, in the lower
48 by UPS. That is loaded and primed with jacketed slug.

Here is picture of Brett Ittel's Savage 210 he has setup.
It has a 3.5" 12ga chamber in a heavy 27" Pacnor barrel,
that he put in place of original. He also put in a Knoxx
spring/cam recoil absorbing butt plate in the hollow
Savage plastic stock. He replace the plastic parts of the
absorber with aluminum parts. It is shown without the boot
so you can see how it is in the butt.He also has an oversize
pad on it. He hasn't weighted the gun with anything else and
it shoots comfortable, even off the bench with loads that get
a 500gr slug in a BPI sabot over 3000 fps. He gets this speed
with BPI and 500 gr in 3.5" plastic cases. He also can use
3.5" RMC cases and our BMG based case, cut to 3.5"...Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
.375 member


Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #151245 - 20/01/10 05:08 PM

Some 8ga work.I found a way and made a die that
swages the 8ga kiln cases down to regular 8ga size.
It swages the belt down and a turning tool I made
removes the sharp edge on the belt after swaging,
to make a smooth transition to the right size.
It does it 4 times faster than previous process.
My chamber on the NEF is set up so regular sizes fit
and loaded kiln cases with the belt step won't go in.
It works with both the REM 8ga cases from BPI and the
WIN 8ga cases from Precision Reloading, and the
WIN cases are only 44 bucks a hundred, primed.
The WIN cases have the same extra powerful primer
just like the REM cases. The REM cases are black
and the WIN cases a see through plastic. Both same
thick sides.Anyone needing cases worked over
contact me... Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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450_366
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Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #151255 - 20/01/10 07:37 PM

Hehe, the rim seems to want to get bigger then the barrel.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: 450_366]
      #151303 - 21/01/10 06:59 AM

Hi Ed - I just got hold of "8 Bore Ammuntion" by Douglas McDougall , has both his books in one volume .

Only just got it & have not read though it yet , but has a bit on making a re-sizer for the Rem Industrial case's & reloading them .

If you need any more info (make a change from me asking you) just let me know !

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: Sarg]
      #151309 - 21/01/10 07:34 AM

An amazing thread - 15 pages.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: DarylS]
      #151564 - 23/01/10 03:47 PM

The 8ga rim about .170" smaller than NEF barrel,
Important is that the base is about .280" smaller
so it has good strength.They use good steel in NEF.

It took a few tries, but I got a 8ga resizer working
perfect. And a tool I use on my case lathe smooths
the transition so cases don't hang up when extracting
even with heavy loads.With REM cases I fire about
four times without having to resize.

A switch barrel auto we are testing 3.5" 12ga
smoothbore USS-S slugs, with hopped up loads.
About as accurate as the other guns here. Also
I'm getting the auto set up in my 585 HE long
case.585 HE long case shown in the port.
Switching barrels only takes minutes. This 12ga
barrel about as heavy as the 210 Savage barrel.
It is originally a 3.5" 12ga autoloader I've reworked
the stroke and have a barrel extension coming to add
585 28" barrel. Gun is weighted, thick double pad.
We are going to see how mild 585 HE loads of
9,000 ft lbs work in autoloader.Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #152340 - 31/01/10 04:37 PM

Guys have asked about a 10ga FH, and it is just
getting stuff to do cases with reasonable time and cost.
So a breakthrough with a 10ga FH, is putting 10 gauge
basecups from plastic cases onto 50cal Russian brass to
make a 4.05" long 10ga. I expand case using my shellholder
on original rim, put in bushing for shotgun primer, which
fires off RE17, the turn case and rim a little, and slip
on basecup with epoxy inside. Then take a 200 dollar heavy
barrel NEF 10ga, and deepen chamber like mine is.
Here is picture with one beside a 12ga FH. The 12ga FH holds
max load of about 330 gr ball powder below a slug,
and the 10ga FH holds 420gr. I'm getting things set
to get a bunch of cases to do this. Progress.
Now anyone wanting any of my cases for their collection
I have a package of them all. Contact me.. ...Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #153002 - 06/02/10 08:22 PM


Also I found a company that would rebore 10ga
NEF heavy barreled guns to 8ga, if they can
get 5-6 guys lined up to do it, so that they can
make tooling and charge less than
300 bucks to do it. Delta Reboring.
Let me know and we'll get arrangements made
if enough are interested.I have two now.ED

--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #153441 - 12/02/10 03:02 PM

The long brass 10GA FH case shown above has a Lyman
slug in a thickwall 10ga steel shotcup that BPI sells.
That's a 12ga 525gr Lyman.Makes nice lighter slug for 10ga.
The slug has bottom chamfered to set in cup tight
and a little epoxy makes it one piece that makes it a discarding
sabot style like a SPW. That makes it front heavy so that it
is as accurate as Brenekke KOs in smoothbore. I'm
also working with a guys to cast long hollowbase 10ga slugs
like the ones Federal loads. We are figuring out molds now,
will probably make slugs about 850gr. Here is picture of
my 10GA FH NEF with long brass case started in the chamber.
Chamber is set for that 4.050" brass case and will shoot 3.5"
plastic cases also. I am going to put on a thumbhole Survivor
stock like I have on NEF 8ga we did.Ed





--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #154454 - 22/02/10 02:34 PM

We talk about liking the use of heavier slug barrels
in using our slow powder giving 1/3 faster loads
in plastic cases, and handling recoil better. It is
stiffer being heavy for an aid to accuracy.
Guy out west has this heavy muzzled, Hastings, rifled
barrel, for his REM 870. In first pic is a comparison to the
original 870 barrel. It shows a muzzle as heavy as on
a NEF Ultra Slug GUN. 2nd picture is the gun itself.
That makes a neat slug gun..Ed





--------------------
Ed Hubel

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #155106 - 28/02/10 04:56 PM

On another thread here is concerns about the
MRC PH action. They have couple hundred all done, but
waiting on the firing pins, which are being made now
and then will be heat treated and delivered.
And them he can assemble our actions, adjust pins, test the safety
as fast as they can, and be sent out.
The company making pins went bankrupt, with Jeff having
paid for tooling and 600 pins(for PH and other actions) and they didn't
deliver order before going bankrupt. I have picked up 4 extra actions
from guys who went on to other guns. They are a good actions
for big cases. It is only been 2 years since they started
actually making these and 22 months since they charged my card for
first one.They designed them years before, but things with others in
the firm just didn't help get it going.

I paid money with the knowledge that it was to help get
these actions in production, knowing it would take time, as many
things in the gun business does.While he was making these, he had to
buy out people so as to get busineess going in right
direction. He had avery few PH pins on approval, and he tested first
PH last summer and sent it to me to put my hairy 700HE in
it to test, and I tested it with a 65,000 psi load, Tested ok.
Couple weeks after, knowing pins work, he called to get the rest
of order and got a bankruptcy lawyer. And no pins or tooling.
I know I'll get my other actions. I got more patience than most,
but Jeff has done yeoman job considering folks he had to get
out who didn't seem to help, considering the heat treating took a while
to get perfect( heat treating co fault), and the supplier problems.
Also He is in process of making a complete fully equipped shop,
getting all CNC stuff to do all of his small parts in house ,by the end of
this year.

The heavy rifled barrel in previous post was made by
Hastings for the Remington 870. It is 26" long and a
muzzle diameter of over an inch. Hastings is gone now,
but we'd like to find some of these barrels. The Hastings
number of the barrel is 560H90.

In the meantime Remington has come out with their
SPS Super Magnum Slug Gun with 25.5" rifled barrel and
a 1" diameter muzzle, with more solid barrel, and extra
pins in mounting barrel, so a scope can be put on action. Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

Edited by hubel458 (28/02/10 05:00 PM)

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hubel458
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Reged: 13/02/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Brinton,MI-USA
Re: 12GA From Hell [Re: hubel458]
      #155862 - 09/03/10 05:38 PM

I am now putting a 3.5" 20ga on the FBW action.
We are having RMC make 3.5" brass 20ga cases. I also
bought a huge box of 3.5" plastic case Hastings
hot rod sabot slugs at their out if business auction.
Picture is of FBW with brass case in the feed trough.
Any wanting to do 20 ga brass cases, at same time,
contact RMC, they'd like to make a big batch this spring..
I also got few of the cases to make the 10ga FH
brass 4.050" long case. Anyone wanting one. I'll part
with them, but I'll only will have a few. The brass is hard
to find and costly.. Ed



--------------------
Ed Hubel

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