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JohnWilkes
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Loc: SA
Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article
      #149764 - 07/01/10 06:25 PM

Anyone read the article in "Rifle" magazine by Ganyana on Cape Buffalo guns?
Interesting and well written made some good points though somewhat contradicts himself in parts I felt
thoughts/observations anyone?

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FATBOY404
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: JohnWilkes]
      #149773 - 07/01/10 08:07 PM

I realy enjoyed the article myself.He was just saying that buffalo are big not bullet proof.I agree with him in that now with the premium bullets available smaller calibers are now more effective. Why is a 338 win mag is not leagel but a 9.3x62 is ?.You can use a premium bullet in a 338 and it would work just fine,or a poorly constructed bullet in the 9.3 and fail.I have done some load development for a 338 & I can push a 300 grain Woodleigh solid & RN @ 2400 fps , tell me that woudnt take a buffalo !!.

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tophet1
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: FATBOY404]
      #149779 - 07/01/10 10:29 PM

He backed up what I have been told. You don't need solids for Buff with today's premium soft points. It was nice to hear.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: JohnWilkes]
      #149787 - 07/01/10 11:29 PM

Is it on the net anywhere?

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ozhunter
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: FATBOY404]
      #149790 - 08/01/10 12:07 AM

Quote:

I have done some load development for a 338 & I can push a 300 grain Woodleigh solid & RN @ 2400 fps , tell me that woudnt take a buffalo !!.



The problem is that the diameter of the hole in the lungs gets smaller and you've got to stop some where.
Have seen animals get an awfully long way with a high or single lung shot. Not a great scenario with DG or a park boundary close by.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: FATBOY404]
      #149791 - 08/01/10 12:10 AM

Quote:

Why is a 338 win mag is not leagel but a 9.3x62 is ?.You can use a premium bullet in a 338 and it would work just fine,or a poorly constructed bullet in the 9.3 and fail.I have done some load development for a 338 & I can push a 300 grain Woodleigh solid & RN @ 2400 fps , tell me that woudnt take a buffalo !!.


For the simple reason that while you know your way around the .338 and would load suitable 300grain bullets, some numbnut would toddle off to Africa with 200 or 225 grain non-premium factory loads and then complain about getting stomped on... or a least leave some wounded buffalo running around the bush to stomp on natives. Don't forget that the rules were probably introduced with resident hunting in mind, much of which would be unguided. At least in the 9,3 the factory standard load is 286 grains which gives more margin for error even in non-premium bullets. I guess that's the theory anyway. Allowing the 9,3 was an exemption from the .375 only rules introduced - exempted only because of the number of guns in use and its proven reliability (hence the number of guns in use).

Edited by JabaliHunter (08/01/10 12:14 AM)

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Ripp
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #149798 - 08/01/10 02:05 AM

I read the article as well--thought it was very interesting as one can hardly question his experience with all the time he has spent in the field....I actually mentioned this article on another post earlier this month as well..

Agree totally, in today’s world, at least for the first shot, one does NOT need solids for buffalo--I actually had a pass through with a soft (A-Frame)..on the last buffalo I shot..

I guess I question somewhat the assertion that the minimum caliber restriction was set up for locals as it appears most poachers don’t really care about caliber selection..and are they not the ones(locals) who most frequently are carrying firearms in the bush...have not seen too many locals in a village with firearms..only poachers running after we had spotted them..or as in the case last year, firing on a PH while out hunting with his client from Europe...

Personally think the .338 is every bit as lethal as the 9.3..but as stated, some moron would use a really light bullet and get killed,,,then it would for sure be the calibers fault...


Ripp

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: Ripp]
      #149799 - 08/01/10 02:13 AM

Quote:

Personally think the .338 is every bit as lethal as the 9.3..but as stated, some moron would use a really light bullet and get killed,,,then it would for sure be the calibers fault...



The .318 Rimless was a popular buffalo rifle. 250 gr SPs and FMJs.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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JabaliHunter
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: NitroX]
      #149811 - 08/01/10 03:44 AM

I agree Ripp and Nitrox.
Ripp - when I said resident hunters I had in mind legal hunting by residents of Zimbabwe (perhaps not so much these days) and other places (Namibia etc). Those guys can hunt in their own country the same as you can hunt in the US - get a permit and book a camp.

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FATBOY404
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #149836 - 08/01/10 07:59 AM

I do agree that, within reason bigger is better.As you know I have a 9.3x62 but felt I would be more confident with something bigger like a 404 Jeffery.When you only have 10 days to take a buffalo you need all the help you can get & it may turn a marginal shot that you wouldnt take with a 9.3, in to a trophy with a 404.

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tophet1
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: FATBOY404]
      #149840 - 08/01/10 09:23 AM

Do you take a marginal shot with a bigger calibre and not with a less adequate one ? Correct shot placement still remains paramount to dispatch the quarry.

I would submit that the trophy hunter may take an 'any angle' shot presented if the trophy is all they are after. Here the larger over-kill calibres may have a role. The hunter, would pass up that shot or wait for a better presentation. Just an opinion.

Edited by tophet1 (08/01/10 09:24 AM)

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Ripp
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: tophet1]
      #149857 - 08/01/10 01:30 PM

Quote:

Do you take a marginal shot with a bigger calibre and not with a less adequate one ? Correct shot placement still remains paramount to dispatch the quarry.

I would submit that the trophy hunter may take an 'any angle' shot presented if the trophy is all they are after. Here the larger over-kill calibres may have a role. The hunter, would pass up that shot or wait for a better presentation. Just an opinion.



Think everything you say is spot on...there is NO reason EVER to take a poor shot, period...think in some cases the larger over-kill as you call them calibers is almost worse as many who attempt to shoot them really can not...

Ripp

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: tophet1]
      #149859 - 08/01/10 02:22 PM

Quote:

Do you take a marginal shot with a bigger calibre and not with a less adequate one ? Correct shot placement still remains paramount to dispatch the quarry.

I would submit that the trophy hunter may take an 'any angle' shot presented if the trophy is all they are after. Here the larger over-kill calibres may have a role. The hunter, would pass up that shot or wait for a better presentation. Just an opinion.



But it is pretty obvious that it is possible to take some shots with a bigger calibre than with a marginal one, eg a breaking the shoulder shot as compared to a behind the shoulder shot to avoid bone.

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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93mouse
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: NitroX]
      #149881 - 08/01/10 07:06 PM

I wouldn't stray away from a breaking the shoulder shot with 9.3 as long as I will be confident in hiting.

IMo it all boils down to shot placement and adequate straight penetration - one should invest in 1. shooting practice, 2. coming closer, 3. use better aiming device. The rest is all about straight penetration - therefore the right bullet should be used - and here is where you can get some ease with bigger calibers - 9.3&co. calibers palette is narrow but it gets broader when you go up with caliber. The rest is as Adam said - bigger bores make bigger holes - therefore on body shots buffalo usually succumb faster - tho with latest generation bullets, the velocity comes in play...but one should never forget about obstacles on the bullet's path - no doubt bigger/heavier/slower/bluntish is better...Just my 2c - I may stand corrected .

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FATBOY404
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: 93mouse]
      #149883 - 08/01/10 08:30 PM

Tophet1. I knew when I wrote "bigger is better" it would get a responce like yours.I dont disagree with what you are saying but when you go on a 10 day hunt I want everything in my favour & useing a larger caliber is one of those things. I never suggested that I would take a rear end shot just because I have a big caliber. I just ment that I may take a shot closer to dark or mayby slightly quartering away that I personally may not take with my 9.3.

Last time I went to Africa I shot all my plains game with 200 grain Accubonds in a 338-06 and had no problems but knowing what I know now, I would still take the same rifle but with heavier bullets.I wanted to take an Eland but didnt find one I would consider a trophy, but while hunting them & seeing the size of them I believed I would only take the shot if a perfect broadside shot was presented.I dont see why I should limit my chances of success to one perfect shot.

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JohnWilkes
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: FATBOY404]
      #149893 - 08/01/10 11:48 PM

My reading of the article was rather along the lines that with modern projectiles a 9.3 was adequate as a buff charge stopper, given good shot placement. But as I mentioned he then offered some contradictory evvidence.

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bigmaxx
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: JohnWilkes]
      #149912 - 09/01/10 04:14 AM

I shot my buffalo with a .458 lott and was quite pleased with it's performance. My motto is use enough gun. I don't fancy the idea of taking on a wounded cape buffalo with a marginal caliber. I put myself at risk, and the PH and trackers. Maybe even nearby rural africans if it gets away. I like the idea of a heavy rifle in areas where you are likely to encounter elephant and lion. No matter what caliber the best possible bullet is the one to use. I used the Swift A-Frame and Hornady solids in 500 grains. I shot a heck of alot and felt confident with the rifle. As to shot choice I can say this. Hunting is a sport that requires gut instinct and split second decisions. Seldom are shots perfect textbook broadside presentations. There is no substitute for proficiency with your rifle. Good hunting!

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Wes350
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: bigmaxx]
      #149936 - 09/01/10 07:44 AM

I think that with his promotion of the 9.3, He's trying to counteract some of the "magnum mania" that persists with many hunters. That is also prevalent in the shooting press and in ammo makers advertisements.

The 9.3 or .375, has tolerable recoil, kills them dead with good shot placement, and the average joe is less likely to stuff his shot with a flinch.

You don't need to prove anything by shooting a big kicker, it's OK to use a gun less than .40 calibre to kill a Buff with.

Naturally it goes without saying that if you can shoot a bigger bore just as well as the smaller one - then by all means do so...

But only if you can shoot it just as good!

.

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Cazadero
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: JohnWilkes]
      #200564 - 25/01/12 01:53 PM

Can someone tell me who Ganyana is?

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500Nitro
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: Cazadero]
      #200565 - 25/01/12 01:58 PM


A writer in, I think Zimbabwe.

Their is a photo of him in that new African book on Cartridges.

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tophet1
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: Cazadero]
      #200566 - 25/01/12 02:12 PM

Quote:

Can someone tell me who Ganyana is?



Don Heath. Currently employed by Norma to develop and promote their PH line of ammo. Long history of employment in the Rhodesian and Zimbabwean National Parks. Assessor for the Zimbabwean PH exams.

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HogPilot
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: tophet1]
      #200583 - 25/01/12 05:11 PM

Tophet1, I always thought so as well. But I see post by "Ganyana" and post by Don Heath on AR. They both appear to be PHs and either former or current game department officials. Are they the same person?

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FATBOY404
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: HogPilot]
      #200586 - 25/01/12 05:32 PM

I believe there are Two Ganyans's.

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ozhunter
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: FATBOY404]
      #200599 - 25/01/12 08:08 PM

Perhaps he would rather not be known considering the thugs that run his country and some of the things he writes about them.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cape Buffalo guns! Ganyana article [Re: ozhunter]
      #200610 - 26/01/12 12:34 AM

Don Heath now lives in Sweden and works for the Norma company. But also still has duties in Zimbabwe I believe. I think he still does PH testing as well.

I also believe another person also sometimes posts as Ganyana.

Who knows, maybe there is a lot of Ganyanas.

Some things that have been written by a "Ganyana" probably would not be appreciated by the criminal gov't of Zimbabwe, as ozhunter says, thugs. A good reason to keep one's identity separate from certain comments.

This thread is now under a non-public category, but I think I will ask DH if he wants it edited, or not. His decision.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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