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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Forum Photos & Archive
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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Mystery .404
      #148745 - 24/12/09 12:05 PM

Does anybody know or have an idea who made this rifle?
http://www.cabelas.com/gun-inventory---dundee---fine-rifle---1197506-mausfisch-dun.shtml

It is built on a SSB Mauser action, which is the same length as my Rigby slant magazine .375 H&H Magnum and accepts H&H Magnum cartridges in the magazine.

Cabelas says that it was originally a .375 H&H which was rebarrelled to .404, and the ad originally attributed it to Jerry Fisher (Fischer, as they spelled it). Jerry says not his, maybe Al Biesen. I thought Griffin and Howe, but Paul Chapman of G&H says no. It's a beauty, in any case.
















Images added by CptCurl

Edited by CptCurl (18/01/10 06:01 AM)

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #148749 - 24/12/09 12:32 PM

What is an SSB Mauser action ?

Any idea what it went for in $$$$ terms ?

Nice looking gun.

Edited by 500Nitro (24/12/09 12:33 PM)

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #148760 - 24/12/09 01:51 PM

SSB=Single Square Bridge
About $5900.00

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #148801 - 25/12/09 02:39 AM

Horrible piece of wood though

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: Bramble]
      #148809 - 25/12/09 03:29 AM

Some people like pin knots.

I'm not one of them, but all in all I'm pretty pleased with it. I hope it shoots.

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VonGruff
.400 member


Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #148823 - 25/12/09 05:36 AM

You would think they would at least use the correct spelling for the JEFFERY, although not surprising as many get it wrong.
I take it from your last post XAUSA that you have bought said rifle. I too, hope it shoots well and that you let it see an animal or two.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: VonGruff]
      #148825 - 25/12/09 06:34 AM

Thanks for the sentiment.

I have just gotten some new medication for my arthritis which I hope will mask the symptoms enough to allow me to keep hunting for a few more years. I don't relish the prospect of hunting out of a golf cart. I will certainly do my best to bring the rifle into close proximity of a worthy adversary.

I have a supply of Kynoch .423" bullets, both SN and solid, which I have been hoarding over the years, and which is one reason for my interest in the caliber.

This rifle is built almost exactly the way I would have had it designed, quality of wood notwithstanding, if I had ordered it built for me. At least the wood grain flows correctly through the small of the stock.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #148828 - 25/12/09 07:03 AM

Quote:

SSB=Single Square Bridge
About $5900.00




Thanks.

It shows I need a holiday LOL.

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #148829 - 25/12/09 07:03 AM

Xausa

May I apologise.

I thought that this was one of those general "What do you think" threads.

Had I known that you had purchased the rifle I would have been a deal more polite in my reference to the wood.
No offence meant.

Regards

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: Bramble]
      #148830 - 25/12/09 07:11 AM

Bramble,

No apology needed. I purposefully kept my relationship to the rifle obscure in order to promote frank comments.

I don't understand why someone would go to the expense of having a beautifully designed rifle built and then skimp on the quality of the wood. However, it is residing in the cabinet among my Griffin & Howes, and so far I haven't heard a murmur of disdain from any of them.

Also, if the rifle had had a gorgeous stock on it, I probably couldn't have afforded it.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #148831 - 25/12/09 07:15 AM


Re the Wood, it is interesting in that I looked at it and thought that is very English, shape of stock and colour of wood.

I saw the knots and have had a couple of English BA's with them in the butt, albeit in darker wooded guns although I have a Jeffrey 375H&H which has a similar coloured piece of wood - and style.

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #148896 - 26/12/09 05:02 AM

Two names have come up as possibly responsible: Tom Burgess for the metal work and Dennis Erhardt for the stock. I understand Tom Burgess is no longer available, but that Dennis Erhardt is living in Montana. Any of you Montanans familiar with his work?


I have seen pictures of other rifles Dennis Erhardt built and noticed that he favors pointed checkering patterns, G&H side mounts and the same kind of stock reinforcement screws as can be seen on the .404. Tom Burgess made bolt handles which appear identical to the one on the .404.





Edited by xausa (26/12/09 05:05 AM)

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #149142 - 31/12/09 07:55 AM

I contacted Dennis Ernhardt and he reports that the stock work is not his.

"I cannot tell for sure who made the gun, but it looks as though Thom Burgess may have done the metal work. The stock could possibly have been made by Maurice Ottmar. It looks like a beautiful rifle."

Maurice Ottmar is evidently deceased, so unless someone knows of the whereabouts of any records he may have kept, I seem to have arrived at a dead end. I have located a few pictures of Ottmar's work, but none in a heavy caliber which would dictate the type of stock fitted to my rifle.

I have also determined that the bolt will barely close on a new, freshly sized cartridge case, leading me to believe that whoever rebarrelled the rifle did not have a headspace gauge and used a factory cartridge to set the headspace with. As soon as I can get my hands on a headspace gauge I will know more.

It seems unlikely that the rifle has ever been fired in its present configuration. There is no evidence of copper fouling in the bore.

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GSP7
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Reged: 23/01/06
Posts: 51
Loc: Ca./idaho
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #149148 - 31/12/09 09:28 AM

If you think that is a Maurice Ottmar stock , you might want to contact Chic Worthing. "I think" he was a good friend and might haved learned stocking from Ottmar. http://webpages.charter.net/cworthing/

PS, I just sent Chic a email and asked

Edited by GSP7 (31/12/09 09:41 AM)

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poprivit
.333 member


Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: GSP7]
      #149217 - 01/01/10 05:05 AM

Xausa - I also have knees that are riddled with bone spurs and the deadly arthritis. I just had my left knee replaced (ugh!!!) and am looking for different ways to deal with the right one. I've stumbled across a drug, Arthrotec 75, that seems to work quite well. It cuts pain by 90 % and is not a narcotic. Another drug that seems to help is Tramadol. No side effects from either. I'm on Percocet from the operation, and I can tell you from experience, it weren't no fun. Two and a half months later and I still hurt.
Rotsa' ruck.

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LongIsland
.224 member


Reged: 09/02/09
Posts: 38
Loc: New York, U.S.A.
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: poprivit]
      #149240 - 01/01/10 04:17 PM


Run it past the guys at Champlins, they see quite a few customs thru their door.

Also, Mr. Hallowell might help.

Good Luck,
Bob

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GSP7
.275 member


Reged: 23/01/06
Posts: 51
Loc: Ca./idaho
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: LongIsland]
      #149248 - 01/01/10 07:58 PM

Xausa did you buy the rifle?

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: GSP7]
      #149269 - 02/01/10 04:25 AM

Yep. Any response from Chic?

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GSP7
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Reged: 23/01/06
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Loc: Ca./idaho
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #149270 - 02/01/10 04:50 AM

Yes, I will send you a PM

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: GSP7]
      #150937 - 17/01/10 12:16 PM

Direct links from the Cabelas website.
Enjoy the view while they're still on their server!


















Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Edited by CptCurl (18/01/10 06:00 AM)

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pjaln
.375 member


Reged: 08/06/06
Posts: 711
Loc: massachusetts ,U.S.A.
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: tinker]
      #151412 - 22/01/10 09:05 AM

look at gun digest custom gun sections ,a lot of unmarked guns are found that way ,if your not familiar, every year different rifles are featured i would go thru the 80,s for this one ,judging from the swept back bolt and no barrel band, i think its an 80,s rifle....paul

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lawndart
.224 member


Reged: 09/05/06
Posts: 35
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: pjaln]
      #155572 - 05/03/10 06:34 PM

The instant I looked at the picture of the rifle, I said "Tom Burgess and Maurice Ottmar".

Tom died 1&1/2 years ago. Maurice passed away about ten years ago.

Maurice worked with the wood he was given.

I believe that you have an incredible rifle there sir.

If you ever find yourself in need of softer recoiling cartridges for that rifle, let me know. I could make those up easily.

The original specification on the 404 Jeffery (Rimless Nitro Express) was for 2,125fps out of a 28" barrel. That would be quite shootable out of the rifle pictured here.

Good luck,

lawndart

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lawndart
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Reged: 09/05/06
Posts: 35
Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: lawndart]
      #155646 - 06/03/10 04:28 PM

That is Tom's work for sure. He worked with Remington produced rifles exclusively.

Remington figured out the heat treating before Winchester, et. al. The Remington's did not need that "duck pond" above the rear receive bridge. Tom was very good at turning those Remington's into pseudo single square bridges.

What a delight to the eye.

He worked with Maurice, D'Arcy Echols and Gene Milliron on various rifles.

Thanks for sharing such a good quality photo.

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: lawndart]
      #155665 - 07/03/10 01:53 AM

I certainly appreciate your posts. Finding out who was responsible for this rifle have become almost an obsession with me.

I am a little confused as to your reference to Tom Burgess working exclusively with Remington actions, as this action is undoubtedly a pre-War Oberndorf Magnum Mauser.

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AspenHill
Sponsor


Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: Mystery .404 [Re: xausa]
      #155831 - 09/03/10 07:35 AM

Nice rifle, I like the wood too.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures

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